Who Should Pay for the Date? The Dreaded Dilemma Examined
Who Should Pay for the Date?
One of the joys of being married is not having to worry about the dreaded “who’s going to pick up the tab?” question during a date. Nonetheless, it will always be a hot topic that many have strong opinions on, and this is a personal finance blog for youthful adults after all, so let’s explore. This is a fun topic, and I’d love to get your comments.
A Little History on the Date Paying Issue
Basically the tradition of the male being expected to pick up the tab started way back in the 1920’s when dating became common because few women had high paying jobs or any jobs at all relative to their male counterparts. Nowadays, circumstances have changed, yet the tradition has been carried on by many. But should it?
Paying for the Date: Some Cold Hard Numbers
Earlier this year, and Elle/MSNBC dating survey of 74,000 online readers found that:
- 66% of men wanted women to chip in after a few dates.
- 44% of women were bothered by being expected to help chip in.
- 57% of women offer to pay (including the first date) – 34% were bothered if the man accepts, and 46% were bothered if he refuses.
- 75% of men felt guilty when they let the woman pay, even if she has a higher income.
- 66% of women try to keep their income secret from their dates.
- 80% of men say they end up paying most date expenses.
These findings illustrate a point that many men have known for years – we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Is it any wonder why guys obsess over this dilemma?
What are the Options when the Bill Comes?
I think there’s three solid options, and it’d definitely worth discussing with your significant other once you are committed. It’s not an easy thing to discuss if you’re not or on your first few dates. Obviously all three are going to have a different impact on your finances:
1. The Man always pays – i think this option is too traditional and somewhat disrespectful to modern social situations.
2. Whomever makes more pays – this the most humanitarian of the options.
3. Equal duty regardless of pay – if both are earning an ‘honest income’, it is somewhat just. I tend to like this option the best if income’s are similar, but it’s not an easy conversation to have, especially in the first few dates.
I can tell you this, if you’re a guy reading this, avoid the 44% of women that are bothered by being expected to help and the 34% that are bothered by a man accepting their offer to help (yes, I realize this limits your options, but you’ll thank me down the road).
Women, you should probably avoid the guy who wants to pay every time and you should probably be the one to break the ice on the fair pay topic at some point. What are your thoughts?
Looking for a Date?
Before you can quibble over who should pay for the date, you’ll have to find one! I’ve had a few friends find good dates successfully on Chemistry.com and EHarmony.com. Happy Dating!
Paying for the Date Discussion:
- Who should pay for the first date? 3rd date?
- What should the rules be?
- Women: are you bothered if your date expects you to help?
- Men: would you accept if your date offered to pay?
- Women: would you be mad if he did accept your offer to pay?
- Gays: what rules do you play by?
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I’d go with neither of your three options. While its nice for a guy to always offer to pay, I think its only fair that whoever extends the invitation pays.
I must admit, if it was the first date and a guy accepted my offer to pay I’d be a little thrown off. Shouldn’t he still be trying to impress me? hehe. Perhaps I’m being old fashioned with that one….
The same goes if he asked me out, took me to a fancy (i.e. expensive) place and then expected me to pay when I had no say in where we were going. It just seems a bit….unchivalrous. (There I go again with my old-fashioned thinking!)
To summarize my thinking: whoever invites, pays.
For someone who actually is heading for a first date drinks date tonight, this is my opinion. Clearly the dating scene has changed, as well as dating activities. You see a lot more group dates, happy hour dates, etc. then traditional dinner dates. Either way, here it goes.
For a first date, as a guy I always pay, BUT would be pissed if a girl didn’t at least have the courtesy to at least offer. A girl should never assume she’s getting a free meal just cause she went on the date, major downer points in my mind.
After that depends, and depends on how cool the girl is. I think if a guy picks up dinner (which is more expensive) and they grab a drink after, I think the girl should offer to pick up a round. Nothing wrong with that and she gains major respect and cool points. I’d say the guy pay for the first 2-3 dates, then the girl should take control and step up and pay for one. Plans are expensive in these days and if a girl is interested, she should be willing to contribute. Let me know what others think, especially from a female perspective.
Craig
http://www.budgetpulse.com
@ QL Girl – Ah, yes, but let’s not fool people now – and this brings up an entirely new topic – how often do the ladies make the invite? I’d love to see some stats on this. Anyone have anything? I’m willing to bet that it’s below 20% of the time, but I haven’t been on the ’scene’ for a while now.
@ Craig – If only in a perfect world, Craig. If only.
truth: i have never really had a date.
I live in a pretty liberal city, and most of the women i know expect to pay their share.
however, being that i am more traditional, if the woman offered to pay, i would suggest that she pick up the tip. It’s a way to show that i respect her ability to be a whole person, while extending the courtesy of the date.
But, that’s just me.
A fourth option for couples with longer standing would be to each pay according to the ratio of incomes in the relationship. If one partner made 100k per year, and the other 50k, the first could pay 66$ on a $100 bill and the second 33$.
For me, I say what the heck and always am willing to pay.
@QL girl: That’s probably the one point so far that I completely agree with – if the decision on where to go was completely one-sided, then that person pays. So, for a first date it’s whoever did the inviting, so most commonly the guy; I don’t see a problem with that.
@allen: I actually think that sounds a little patronizing (rather than respectful); either you are sharing the expense, or you are not, I don’t see how that kind of token is satisfying to anyone.
One way to do is to alternate the “official” inviter, who pays everything, and can pick venues appropriate for their income-level. That way the partner pulling down $150K a year can pay for the 3 star restaurants, and the grad student can pay for the taco stand.
Personally, I don’t have a problem paying for everything (I guess I do enjoy a bit of flaunting, every once in a while), but I can definitely see how a lot of people would not enjoy always having their way paid for them.
If a guy asks me on a first date, he should pay. If he reaches for the check, I may offer to pay or I may just say thank you. If he doesn’t reach for the check, or if I feel like I /should/ offer to pay (even moreso if I DO end up paying anything), then it becomes not date-like (in my opinion) and a second date will probably not happen – we can continue to hang out, but it will be as friends (and paying separately). If I am dating someone regularly, I have no problem picking up the tab my share of times (which may be more than half, if I make more money or really want them to accompany me to places they have no particular interest in going). I also have no problem with an arrangement where he buys dinner, and I buy movie tickets, or anything else along those lines. However, I absolutely hate the concept of splitting a check. To me, if we ask a server, ticket seller, or anyone else for separate checks, that puts me in a “friends” mindset rather than “date” mindset.
On an unrelated note, although I don’t mind to let someone I am dating pay for things for me if they wish to do so, I have trouble with the idea of letting anyone buy me something that I could not afford to buy for myself, if I so chose.
I’ve never had a “real” first date with another female, so I can’t say how that would work. However, with girls I’ve dated (and one long-term relationship), we just took turns paying for stuff, or whoever had more money paid (again with my not splitting tickets thing. . .). Or, we would pay for what was important to us – for example, in the long-term relationship, I usually paid for a taxi (sober ride) to and from bars, while she picked up the tab while we were there.
I agree with QL girl, the first date a guy should be trying to impress you and it is flattering if they pick up the tab. I would have no problem picking up the tab on the second date and taking turns from there out!
I’m usually open to paying 100% or 50% for meals depending on whatever my date prefers (usually assuming 100%, particularly when dating an unemployed student, but accepting 50% if offered). However, the last date I went on the girl insisted on paying 100% on our first date, explaining “It’s easier than splitting the bill and you can cover it next time. We’ll just take turns.”
I don’t have any strong opinions on this, but I will say I thought her assumptive close for a 2nd date was a smooth way to handle the bill.
@ QL, Kristen – Honestly, I agree too with the fact that the guy should pick up the first date, without hesitation. The one exception would be if the female made the ask.
@ Kevin, Michael – splitting the bill does seem a little tacky, I think ‘taking turns’ is a little more congenial.
From personal experience I have learned that it is best to pay for the first date, mainly to ensure that there is a second date. Once you pass the second date and start getting intimate there should definitely be a clear system in place to decide who pays for which date.
Me and my girlfriend have a system where the person who chooses the location must pay for the date.. Just a thought..
To be honest i will never let the girl pay the bill on a date, in any condition. It just don’t feel right.
I think that expecting the male to pay is the kind of tradition that makes women seem unequal.
It sets up unequal gender roles when the woman’s presence is purchased with a meal. It can send two messages: the woman is doing a favor for the man by coming to dinner and/or the man is purchasing the woman’s company (meaning that women can be rented).
I’ve been on a few dates with other men and they are always insisting to pay. Since I don’t go into the date thinking that I’m doing a favor for him by being there (or that I can be bought for an evening), if he offers to pay, I feel like I’m indebted to him.
The system I use is:
Both partners should offer to pay.
If one is more insistent, that person pays.
If not, the bill is split.
If I do the inviting, I expect to pay the full bill, but am happy when my date wants to split it, because that tells me that the person came solely to spend time with me, not to get a free meal, and is under no obligation to reciprocate by paying on a future date or in some other way.
I would NEVER EVER EVER go on a 2nd date with a guy – if he asked me to chip in on the 1st date- TOTALLY out of the question…sorry if u think Im “old school” – I don’t care… Get a life…
My husband and I both split tabs when we were dating, but we were poor (still are …) and our dates tended to be more along the lines of a bike ride and lunch someplace. It wasn’t until we got kind of serious that he started taking me out to dinner, which was always a really explicit thing, like “I’d like to take you out to dinner.” Having accepted, it would have been rude to insist on paying.
All this based on the percentage of your combined earnings business is kind of nonsense until you’ve been dating long enough to talk about money.
The person that asked the other out pays, period. This is hypocritical if the woman expects the man to always pay on the first date regardless of who asked whom out. If women are going to whine about equal pay, then they need to be treated equally on expenses. Or maybe that’s why men get higher incomes, cause they have to pay for all this free food women get. And if a man feels like he needs to pay so he can maybe get a chance of getting in her panties, there’s less expensive ways to do it, or maybe he just needs to find a more progressive woman to date.
as for comments of the guy needs to impress the girl. Please, it’s a two-way interview to see if the guy is interested in the girl as well and not an automatic thing.
If I asked a guy out, I would expect to pay. If a guy asked me out, I would expect him to pay. If anyone pays for me, whether it be a date or just a friend, I always offer to pay the tip.
It’s pretty weird because some guys don’t like it if you even offer to pay, or offer to pay for some of the check, they get all insulted, and it puts you on an uneven footing. Even if I expect a guy to pay, I would reach for my wallet anyway, and maybe even offer to help, just to show him that I’m not taking it for granted that he’s going to pay.
It’s pretty much impossible to date someone that makes exactly the same amount of money and has exactly the same spending habits as you. So to me, trying to split everything down the middle is unrealistic and definitely wrecks the mood.
My boyfriend and I usually take turns paying, and if I ask to go someplace fancy, I’ll expect to pay for it, since it was my idea. He’s good about not suggesting someplace expensive unless he can afford it, too.
Relationships are supposed to be about giving, not getting, so I really think that both parties should be WILLING to pay. At the very least, it says something about what the relationship will be like.
I always offer, but admittedly am impressed if he refused the first couple times.
With my guy, I’ll offer to pay and he’ll generally decline, but not always. Often, I’ll throw in the tip or something. We don’t make a big deal about it. When he does pay, I always thank him for doing so. I don’t care how long two people are together, a simple “thank you for dinner” never stops being meaningful.
I never had a hard and fast rule about who paid for what on dates – I generally made sure I had enough cash with me to cover at least my share, just in case.
If a man wants a second date, he better pay for the first. I was recently asked out by this guy named Frank. As soon as we sat down at the restaurant he said, “do you mind paying for yours?” I thought “what a cheap *** ****.” Come on guys, if you can’t afford a 20 dollar meal- STAY HOME AND ORDER A PIZZA AND WATCH A DVD.
Whoever extends the invitation should pay. This brings up the greater question of who should ask who out first?
The man should pay, cause why should the woman ever pay for his company when all we really have to do is spread our legs and save some money,right?
Before I made the switch, this was so confusing. I had a huge blonde Athena once rudely browbeat me for having the audacity to offer to pay on the first date … but 4/5 of the time, in my 10 years of experience dating females, they expected me to pay for the honor of their company.
Dating the same sex does away with all the confusing gender baggage. I simply haven’t had any negative issues with men over who pays for dinner. Generally we split 50/50 unless it’s a special occasion, such as a birthday. That’s the way it should be for everyone now that both sexes work and have the vote … in fact, until women get the military draft and we see our armed forces consisting of 50% females, I suggest that women offer to pay. They’re more comfortable than men these days.
In my experience, in pretty much every respect, women are much more expensive than men. That made sense 100 years ago, when they didn’t have jobs, the vote or equal (superior) education. Now it’s just ridiculous.
I’m not sure why women should avoid men who want to pay every single time. What are the drawbacks there?
As for who should pay for the first date (or the 3rd), it should be the person that requested the date. If I like a guy enough to ask him out, I assume that I’ll be paying. However, if he OFFERS to TAKE me out, why shouldn’t he expect to pay? It’s one thing if the woman makes an offer to pay for her share, but it should always be assumed that a man who asked a woman out should be paying for the date. Otherwise it’s not a date, you’re just friends enjoying each others company. One of my friend’s has this rule: he will only pay for a woman if he’s on a “date” with her, or he hopes to be sometime in the near future. If it’s just a girl he’s friends with (and he has plenty of female friends), there’s no reason he should pay, since he wouldn’t pay for his male friends is he went somewhere with them. I think that’s a good rule.
The only time I would not be bothered if my date EXPECTS me to pay, is if he asked me out. It’s rude to offer to take someone out and then have to pay for the privilege of accepting the invitation. If I made an offer to pay, and a man accepted it, I wouldn’t say that I’d be “mad”. Perhaps disappointed? If this is date 1 and the man asked me out, this will probably be his last date with me, unless I really enjoyed his company (very rare on a first date–usually a time when everyone’s nervous). However, if it’s my fifth date or so, and the guy has consistently been paying for everything, I wouldn’t mind paying for things.
In fact, with my current boyfriend, our first date involved about 8 hours of activities, and I ended up paying for dinner (he had paid for everything else, and I really liked him by that point). And now (we’ve been dating for about a year), I make significantly more money than him, so I have no problem splitting costs when we go out (usually I pay for one day and he pays for another, splitting the costs of one check seems really silly and trivial to us).
I totally agree girls should help guys when it comes to bill. No splitting.
Let’s see into this puzzle for me:
It’s our third date. He paid for our first and second coffee. I gave him a book (a little bit expensive)that he was in need.
We’re going for a movie which he has already seen (but he doesn’t mind enjoying it again coz it’s a good one).
I’d like to pay for the tickets. Just wondering how to make the offer tactfully.
Yet I also want to know if he really enjoys being with me or not (since if I pay I cannot know for sure he likes it that way or just because he doesn’t have to pay!!!)
Moreover, I want to ask him for ice cream after the movie as a surprise (he really loves that ice cream shop). Should I pay for the ice cream too?
Cheers.
MP
A guy asked me out – i let him pay for the coffee, i didn’t even make an offer to pay – i just thought it was normal that the guy should pay, besides, he was the one who asked me out.
So when he asked me out on a second date, he asked me if i could afford eating dinner, like – i’m asking you out, but is it ok if you pay for your own meal? It wasn’t even expensive! I was shocked, seriously.
And on our third date,we went bowling, and he asked me if i had any cash on. so we both payed. And now i want to dump him. And the only reason i went on a third date, is because i thought he was really cute. and he was.
He is really cute and smart. But sending a girl an sms after the FIRST date, asking her if she can AFFORD eating out – even if he knew the restaurant we were going to was kinda cheap – is a BAD MOVE. It’s such a shame, because he is relly cute. He just made a bad bad, horrible, mistake.
I feel sorry for him when he texts me good night with smileys. Cause I’m thinking, i’m no one-night-stand material – and he knows that, honey,i will never be your girlfriend. And all because of that one sms. Maybe he’s retarded. It’s so typical of me to find the psykos – why did he have to ruin?
And i know he’s really interested in me. oh, what a shame…
Bad question. The man should do it
Notice how most of the people leaving comments are saying, “If the man invites, then he should pay…otherwise it’s not really a date.” Well, how many women ask men out? It’s a simple case of women still wanting to get away with something while trying to pretend that they’re not equal.
If I invite a girl out, according to these comments, then I’m going to call the shots – where we eat, how long we stay out…and whether I ask her out again. I’m paying for my entertainment so I’m in control…and she is not. She can shut up and eat since that’s what most of you are advocating here. I guess we men are simply trying out the girl for a few hours (not unlike prostitution or simply renting the girl for a few hours) in which case IF I want a second date then she should be grateful that I wasn’t sick of her the first time.
Dating for BOTH parties is an investment of time, emotion and money. If women want men to pay for them. Any woman in today’s age who thinks she’s independent but at the same time expects a man to pay for her is simply a hypocrite who is taking advantage of the situation. If she had paid her half of the night then it would have been OUR night to decide…and we each would have invested something in it to make sure it goes well. If she pays nothing then she risks nothing and, therefore, doesn’t care as much as the man would about the success of the evening or the relationship. She got asked out, which is her idea of success because she’s thinking “Hmm…I could be hungry on Friday and I’d rather save some money than cook for myself, so sure I’ll go out with you. What’s your name again?” Men aren’t as shallow and actually want to go out with YOU – where or what we do isn’t as important.
Bottom line, ladies, is that we men also want to know that you’re interested in US and not just our money or a free meal. By paying for dinner, the beers and pool games, etc. I was obviously in charge, which is why I stared at the much hotter girl next to me all night. I say we men deserve to get something for putting up with selfish bitches like that…which is why I got a blowjob and kicked her out. After all, I paid for it! She can buy a jar of peanut butter and rent a DVD with her dog.
P.S. She showed up two hours late. The conversation was like talking to a redneck third grader. So I lost money AND my time. Meanwhile, she was fascinated by (but couldn’t keep up with) the conversation. Now she’s writing me emails wondering why I haven’t called her. Ha! She wants to go out again but hasn’t put anything into the relationship yet. Well, on the first date she got to be the asshole, and not it’s my turn.
Pay up, ladies. The 1920’s are over and you’re working now. That money isn’t just for lipstick and tampons.
Since I’m paying, then I guess I’m renting her, which means I can do what I want with her.
What’s that you’re crying out? She’s a woman with rights, independence and self-respect who has the right to decide? Well, those qualities apply all the time, not just when it’s convenient for her. Open your wallet or your legs. If I’m buying dinner for you then I’m buying you too…at least until I move on to someone better.
Tired of men cheating on you, ladies? Try showing up and making an effort in the relationship. Again, both people are investing time and emotion in the risk of a first date so both should pay. The excuse that she is a single mom has nothing to do with it. HER decision to get pregnant and end her relationship with the other man is not MY problem. It comes down to mutual respect, mutual honoring of each other’s time and emotions, and mutual presence on the date. The bill is mutual because society now says we are equal…and women love equality unless it’s not in their favor.
How about when I was fixed up on a blind date with a female friend’s girlfriend? It was like I was doing her friend a favor and STILL I had to pay. Shouldn’t my friend have picked up the tab? Shouldn’t her friend have offered since it was a blind date that I was asked to participate in?
I have read through a number of responses to above issue and my standpoint is that on the date a guy should always offer and the girl will show in her turn if she wants to have a relationship or just a free meal and a quick screw for a few weeks. Personally I pay for most of the dates, which is wrong for many reasons but the most important is the fact that she is also a human being and not a “charity case” so if the girl wants to hang out with you then let her cover dates sometimes. It will take a lot of stress off from both of you. Today I am going out and I will change my ways as I am tired of paying for people I don’t even consider friends not to mention girlfriends. Bottom line, there are a lot of girls and then there are a bunch of “gold diggers” out there and if the girl does not offer to pay at least 30% of the time while you dating then she is probably using you and you should consider if the sex is that good.
In this modern age the woman should absolutely and categorically pay half. I don’t even think it is an option anymore and the idea that the guy has to pay (or even offer to pay) for dinner is so outdated.
Of course a little flattery goes a long way but this is just one step to far and hey, don’t people realise there is a recession?
There are so many different opinions on this topic that I think it’s fairest to say there are no right or wrong answers. You just need to choose a partner whose philosophy about dating complements yours. This is essential if you want those first few dates to go smoothly without any uncomfortable moments. In my experience, money is one of the easiest ways to ruin an otherwise positive date with someone.
That said, here are my personal opinions on the matter:
I believe the guy should always pay. Period. I think it’s sad that this is even a question. Women should be suspicious of men who don’t pay, especially on the first date. If he can’t buy you a coffee, he’s a cheap jerk who is probably stingy in other areas, not just finances. I am speaking from experience having dated many men during the past few years, most of them not worth the time of day. Yes, I am socially conservative if you want to call it that, but I think there is something to be said for chivalry even in today’s world. I went on a lunch date last year with a guy who had no manners at all. When the bill came, he looked at me and then back at the bill and I looked at him. It was the most awkward moment ever. He finally said “Do you want to split it?” I was offended, but I didn’t want to make a scene, so I just said “Sure, we can split it;” however, that was our last date.
I disagree with the person above who said that he is “renting” her or “using” her by buying her dinner. He is simply being a gentleman and letting her know he cares about her and values her company. Unfortunately, men of this type are an endangered species these days and the fact that so many so called “modern women” get turned off by chivalry only confuses men even more to the point where a well bred man doesn’t know what to do anymore. If he pays, that means he was raised well which is important in other areas of life if your relationship develops beyond the dating stage.
Luckily for me, I have found a true gentleman, and yes, I did offer to pay even on the first date, but he would not let me. When I told him “you get points for buying me lunch” he looked at me with a puzzled expression and said “I thought that was just common courtesy.” Totally my type of guy! On the second and third dates, he grabbed the check before I had a chance to even look at it and I did offer to pay for the tip both of those times, but he said “No, I’ve got this covered.” After that, I stopped offering because he clearly likes paying and I appreciate the gesture. A woman deserves a man who opens doors for her and treats her like the lady she is. I love it and after dating this guy, I will never accept anything less in a relationship. I think he may be The One. I agree with the reader above who said that if he expects the woman to pay, it isn’t a date. You’ll just be friends from that point on.
I don’t think it is in any way hypocritical for women to have equal work-equal pay and not pay in the dating scene. I believe that the business and personal worlds have different sets of rules. There are other ways for women to be “givers” in a relationship when the guy is paying for everything. For instance, I plan to invite my boyfriend over for a home cooked meal on Valentine’s Day and I’m making all his favorite foods. Guys appreciate that kind of thing because it shows them that we really aren’t gold diggers. We just like to date someone with class.
I invited a friend to a concert a couple hours away. My tickets, my vehicle, hey that’s cool. We ate a light dinner before and she says: You’re going to pay for this aren’t you?
I was really put off by this, but didn’t let on. I think whoever asks should pay, but the other can catch the tip. In this case, she could have chipped in.
When I took her home, I didn’t try to kiss her or anything. That’s stupid anyway.
She’s a musician, a good partner for concerts, but that’s as far as things will get.
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