Who Should Pay for the Date?
One of the joys of being married is not having to worry about the dreaded “who’s going to pick up the tab?” question during a date. Nonetheless, it will always be a hot topic that many have strong opinions on, and this is a personal finance blog for youthful adults after all, so let’s explore. This is a fun topic, and I’d love to get your comments.
A Little History on the Date Paying Issue
Basically the tradition of the male being expected to pick up the tab started way back in the 1920’s when dating became common because few women had high paying jobs or any jobs at all relative to their male counterparts. Nowadays, circumstances have changed, yet the tradition has been carried on by many. But should it?
Paying for the Date: Some Cold Hard Numbers
An older Elle/MSNBC dating survey on paying for dates found that:
- 66% of men wanted women to chip in after a few dates.
- 44% of women were bothered by being expected to help chip in.
- 57% of women offer to pay (including the first date) – 34% were bothered if the man accepts, and 46% were bothered if he refuses.
- 75% of men felt guilty when they let the woman pay, even if she has a higher income.
- 66% of women try to keep their income secret from their dates.
- 80% of men say they end up paying most date expenses.
These findings illustrate a point that many men have known for years – we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Is it any wonder why guys obsess over this dilemma?
What are the Options when the Bill Comes?
I think there’s three solid options, and it’d definitely worth discussing with your significant other once you are committed. It’s not an easy thing to discuss if you’re not or on your first few dates. Obviously all three are going to have a different impact on your finances:
- The Man always pays – i think this option is too traditional and somewhat disrespectful in a number of ways to accept as a given (for both sides).
- Whomever makes more pays – this the most humanitarian of the options, but some could be easily offended.
- Equal duty regardless of pay – if both are earning an ‘honest income’, it is somewhat just. I tend to like this option the best if incomes are similar, but it’s not an easy conversation to have, especially in the first few dates.
- I’ll Get this One, you Get the Next One: OK, this one takes a bit of gusto, but if the date is seemingly going well, you could always offer to pay this time and suggest your date gets the next time. You would only want to do this, of course, if you already know you want additional dates with this person (and you think the feeling is mutual).
I can also tell you this, if you’re a guy reading this, avoid the 44% of women that are bothered by being expected to help and the 34% that are bothered by a man accepting their offer to help (yes, I realize this limits your options, but you’ll thank me down the road).
Women, you should probably avoid the guy who wants to pay every time and you should probably be the one to break the ice on the fair pay topic at some point.
What are your thoughts?
What about for LGBTQ Dates?
I must confess that I am no expert here, but my recommendation would be the same as it is for hetero dates – either split the bill or if the date is going great, offer to pick up this tab if your date gets the next.
How Much Should you Spend on the Date?
Determining how much you/your date/or both of you should spend on a date is a completely separate issue. How much you should spend on a first date is particularly tough. You don’t want to appear materialistic or wasteful, yet you don’t want to appear cheap either.
Paying for the Date Discussion:
- Who should pay for the first date? 3rd date?
- What should the rules be?
- Women: are you bothered if your date expects you to help?
- Men: would you accept if your date offered to pay?
- Women: would you be mad if he did accept your offer to pay?
- Gays: what rules do you play by?
Keep the comments kind and friendly!
I’d go with neither of your three options. While its nice for a guy to always offer to pay, I think its only fair that whoever extends the invitation pays.
I must admit, if it was the first date and a guy accepted my offer to pay I’d be a little thrown off. Shouldn’t he still be trying to impress me? hehe. Perhaps I’m being old fashioned with that one….
The same goes if he asked me out, took me to a fancy (i.e. expensive) place and then expected me to pay when I had no say in where we were going. It just seems a bit….unchivalrous. (There I go again with my old-fashioned thinking!)
To summarize my thinking: whoever invites, pays.
There is a problem with that however, cause that would mean men can’t “score points” with a women anymore, when he’s being spontanious ( which is something girls really like in a man ), cause that would mean he’d still have to pay every single time.
I think you are absolutely right though, i actually feel the same way, BUT, something else needs to fundamentally change, for this become a truly viable option……. women need to start hitting on men more and women need to start taking the initiative more often, cause at the moment, a guy is STILL expected to take the initiative most of the time.
O btw, did you know? guys actually like being hit on, perhaps even more then women do, so by that logic, if the women hits on the man, chances are much higher that it at least turns into some kind of relationship, then it would be if it was the other way around.
“whoever extends the invitation pays.” On the surface this sounds reasonable, but in practice, since men are still expected to extend date invitations, your “fair” proposal is just a reformulation of “the man should pay.” Nice try.
Thumbs-up to that reply.
For someone who actually is heading for a first date drinks date tonight, this is my opinion. Clearly the dating scene has changed, as well as dating activities. You see a lot more group dates, happy hour dates, etc. then traditional dinner dates. Either way, here it goes.
For a first date, as a guy I always pay, BUT would be pissed if a girl didn’t at least have the courtesy to at least offer. A girl should never assume she’s getting a free meal just cause she went on the date, major downer points in my mind.
After that depends, and depends on how cool the girl is. I think if a guy picks up dinner (which is more expensive) and they grab a drink after, I think the girl should offer to pick up a round. Nothing wrong with that and she gains major respect and cool points. I’d say the guy pay for the first 2-3 dates, then the girl should take control and step up and pay for one. Plans are expensive in these days and if a girl is interested, she should be willing to contribute. Let me know what others think, especially from a female perspective.
@ QL Girl – Ah, yes, but let’s not fool people now – and this brings up an entirely new topic – how often do the ladies make the invite? I’d love to see some stats on this. Anyone have anything? I’m willing to bet that it’s below 20% of the time, but I haven’t been on the ‘scene’ for a while now.
@ Craig – If only in a perfect world, Craig. If only.
A fourth option for couples with longer standing would be to each pay according to the ratio of incomes in the relationship. If one partner made 100k per year, and the other 50k, the first could pay 66$ on a $100 bill and the second 33$.
For me, I say what the heck and always am willing to pay.
truth: i have never really had a date.
I live in a pretty liberal city, and most of the women i know expect to pay their share.
however, being that i am more traditional, if the woman offered to pay, i would suggest that she pick up the tip. It’s a way to show that i respect her ability to be a whole person, while extending the courtesy of the date.
But, that’s just me.
@QL girl: That’s probably the one point so far that I completely agree with – if the decision on where to go was completely one-sided, then that person pays. So, for a first date it’s whoever did the inviting, so most commonly the guy; I don’t see a problem with that.
@allen: I actually think that sounds a little patronizing (rather than respectful); either you are sharing the expense, or you are not, I don’t see how that kind of token is satisfying to anyone.
One way to do is to alternate the “official” inviter, who pays everything, and can pick venues appropriate for their income-level. That way the partner pulling down $150K a year can pay for the 3 star restaurants, and the grad student can pay for the taco stand.
Personally, I don’t have a problem paying for everything (I guess I do enjoy a bit of flaunting, every once in a while), but I can definitely see how a lot of people would not enjoy always having their way paid for them.
If a guy asks me on a first date, he should pay. If he reaches for the check, I may offer to pay or I may just say thank you. If he doesn’t reach for the check, or if I feel like I /should/ offer to pay (even moreso if I DO end up paying anything), then it becomes not date-like (in my opinion) and a second date will probably not happen – we can continue to hang out, but it will be as friends (and paying separately). If I am dating someone regularly, I have no problem picking up the tab my share of times (which may be more than half, if I make more money or really want them to accompany me to places they have no particular interest in going). I also have no problem with an arrangement where he buys dinner, and I buy movie tickets, or anything else along those lines. However, I absolutely hate the concept of splitting a check. To me, if we ask a server, ticket seller, or anyone else for separate checks, that puts me in a “friends” mindset rather than “date” mindset.
On an unrelated note, although I don’t mind to let someone I am dating pay for things for me if they wish to do so, I have trouble with the idea of letting anyone buy me something that I could not afford to buy for myself, if I so chose.
I’ve never had a “real” first date with another female, so I can’t say how that would work. However, with girls I’ve dated (and one long-term relationship), we just took turns paying for stuff, or whoever had more money paid (again with my not splitting tickets thing. . .). Or, we would pay for what was important to us – for example, in the long-term relationship, I usually paid for a taxi (sober ride) to and from bars, while she picked up the tab while we were there. :)
I agree with QL girl, the first date a guy should be trying to impress you and it is flattering if they pick up the tab. I would have no problem picking up the tab on the second date and taking turns from there out!
The sheer amount of female ego in posts like this is astounding. Sorry, but as a man of value, I fully expect the woman to impress me, not the other way around. I don’t mind paying because I know that I make more than 95% of mid 20-somethings, but if a woman expects me to pay without any thought of chipping in, then good luck finding that sucker.
Bang on the Nail, good impression are not one sided.
I’m usually open to paying 100% or 50% for meals depending on whatever my date prefers (usually assuming 100%, particularly when dating an unemployed student, but accepting 50% if offered). However, the last date I went on the girl insisted on paying 100% on our first date, explaining “It’s easier than splitting the bill and you can cover it next time. We’ll just take turns.”
I don’t have any strong opinions on this, but I will say I thought her assumptive close for a 2nd date was a smooth way to handle the bill.
@ QL, Kristen – Honestly, I agree too with the fact that the guy should pick up the first date, without hesitation. The one exception would be if the female made the ask.
@ Kevin, Michael – splitting the bill does seem a little tacky, I think ‘taking turns’ is a little more congenial.
From personal experience I have learned that it is best to pay for the first date, mainly to ensure that there is a second date. Once you pass the second date and start getting intimate there should definitely be a clear system in place to decide who pays for which date.
Me and my girlfriend have a system where the person who chooses the location must pay for the date.. Just a thought..
To be honest i will never let the girl pay the bill on a date, in any condition. It just don’t feel right.
In my country normally guy is the one whom always pay.even the wedding and everything.
I think that expecting the male to pay is the kind of tradition that makes women seem unequal.
It sets up unequal gender roles when the woman’s presence is purchased with a meal. It can send two messages: the woman is doing a favor for the man by coming to dinner and/or the man is purchasing the woman’s company (meaning that women can be rented).
I’ve been on a few dates with other men and they are always insisting to pay. Since I don’t go into the date thinking that I’m doing a favor for him by being there (or that I can be bought for an evening), if he offers to pay, I feel like I’m indebted to him.
The system I use is:
Both partners should offer to pay.
If one is more insistent, that person pays.
If not, the bill is split.
If I do the inviting, I expect to pay the full bill, but am happy when my date wants to split it, because that tells me that the person came solely to spend time with me, not to get a free meal, and is under no obligation to reciprocate by paying on a future date or in some other way.
I would NEVER EVER EVER go on a 2nd date with a guy – if he asked me to chip in on the 1st date- TOTALLY out of the question…sorry if u think Im “old school” – I don’t care… Get a life…
And I would NEVER, EVER go out on a first date with you since you are so abusive and egotistical that I should pay simply because of my gender? And the next night you are out with another man doing the same thing with him? And again the next night? How exactly does that work out in my favor?
How about this; Get a job and support your own damn self! Your gonna have to since very few men would ever give you a second look…
Ha! “Old School, huh?” You’re probably too young to be “old school.” You just use your gender for free food & drinks and have a shitty attitude about it all.
I’d kick you to the curb in a heartbeat.
feel the same way…he’s either taking u out or he’s not
My husband and I both split tabs when we were dating, but we were poor (still are …) and our dates tended to be more along the lines of a bike ride and lunch someplace. It wasn’t until we got kind of serious that he started taking me out to dinner, which was always a really explicit thing, like “I’d like to take you out to dinner.” Having accepted, it would have been rude to insist on paying.
All this based on the percentage of your combined earnings business is kind of nonsense until you’ve been dating long enough to talk about money.
The person that asked the other out pays, period. This is hypocritical if the woman expects the man to always pay on the first date regardless of who asked whom out. If women are going to whine about equal pay, then they need to be treated equally on expenses. Or maybe that’s why men get higher incomes, cause they have to pay for all this free food women get. And if a man feels like he needs to pay so he can maybe get a chance of getting in her panties, there’s less expensive ways to do it, or maybe he just needs to find a more progressive woman to date.
as for comments of the guy needs to impress the girl. Please, it’s a two-way interview to see if the guy is interested in the girl as well and not an automatic thing.
Yeah, and how many guys have you asked out on a date and paid for… ?
If I asked a guy out, I would expect to pay. If a guy asked me out, I would expect him to pay. If anyone pays for me, whether it be a date or just a friend, I always offer to pay the tip.
It’s pretty weird because some guys don’t like it if you even offer to pay, or offer to pay for some of the check, they get all insulted, and it puts you on an uneven footing. Even if I expect a guy to pay, I would reach for my wallet anyway, and maybe even offer to help, just to show him that I’m not taking it for granted that he’s going to pay.
It’s pretty much impossible to date someone that makes exactly the same amount of money and has exactly the same spending habits as you. So to me, trying to split everything down the middle is unrealistic and definitely wrecks the mood.
My boyfriend and I usually take turns paying, and if I ask to go someplace fancy, I’ll expect to pay for it, since it was my idea. He’s good about not suggesting someplace expensive unless he can afford it, too.
Relationships are supposed to be about giving, not getting, so I really think that both parties should be WILLING to pay. At the very least, it says something about what the relationship will be like.
I always offer, but admittedly am impressed if he refused the first couple times.
With my guy, I’ll offer to pay and he’ll generally decline, but not always. Often, I’ll throw in the tip or something. We don’t make a big deal about it. When he does pay, I always thank him for doing so. I don’t care how long two people are together, a simple “thank you for dinner” never stops being meaningful.
I never had a hard and fast rule about who paid for what on dates – I generally made sure I had enough cash with me to cover at least my share, just in case.
If a man wants a second date, he better pay for the first. I was recently asked out by this guy named Frank. As soon as we sat down at the restaurant he said, “do you mind paying for yours?” I thought “what a cheap *** ****.” Come on guys, if you can’t afford a 20 dollar meal- STAY HOME AND ORDER A PIZZA AND WATCH A DVD.
…come on Melanie. You can’t be that ridiculous. If you can’t afford to pitch in your half it’s not fair that you make your date pay for your maintenance and lavish lifestyle. Free concerts, meals and dancing every night of the week with a new sucker every time is it? Sweet deal for you. But what exactly do I get out of it? Don’t you work? Don’t you have money? If not, do not accept a date. Stay home and watch your stupid and fictitious soaps then if you are so vile as to be unwilling to contribute to the MUTUAL date that you BOTH together decided on. When will equality really mean just that?
Whoever extends the invitation should pay. This brings up the greater question of who should ask who out first?
Right, because women are known, all over the USA, for asking men out on a first date. Get real…
The man should pay, cause why should the woman ever pay for his company when all we really have to do is spread our legs and save some money,right?
Wrong. The trouble with that is you will get the high income married/single men who will dump you after your have paid, due to volume (as you have to eat most days) one of them will possible have left a tip of HIV for you, and at some point them good looks that got you to the dinner table in the first place will fade away at which point the only spreading of the legs will be after a McDonalds. Or maybe you could get a sign “WORK FOR FOOD”
Good Luck but it’s cheaper to share with someone who wants to share time with you, not impress you with paying for a meal to get you to spread your legs as you so elegantly put it.
Before I made the switch, this was so confusing. I had a huge blonde Athena once rudely browbeat me for having the audacity to offer to pay on the first date … but 4/5 of the time, in my 10 years of experience dating females, they expected me to pay for the honor of their company.
Dating the same sex does away with all the confusing gender baggage. I simply haven’t had any negative issues with men over who pays for dinner. Generally we split 50/50 unless it’s a special occasion, such as a birthday. That’s the way it should be for everyone now that both sexes work and have the vote … in fact, until women get the military draft and we see our armed forces consisting of 50% females, I suggest that women offer to pay. They’re more comfortable than men these days.
In my experience, in pretty much every respect, women are much more expensive than men. That made sense 100 years ago, when they didn’t have jobs, the vote or equal (superior) education. Now it’s just ridiculous.
I’m not sure why women should avoid men who want to pay every single time. What are the drawbacks there?
As for who should pay for the first date (or the 3rd), it should be the person that requested the date. If I like a guy enough to ask him out, I assume that I’ll be paying. However, if he OFFERS to TAKE me out, why shouldn’t he expect to pay? It’s one thing if the woman makes an offer to pay for her share, but it should always be assumed that a man who asked a woman out should be paying for the date. Otherwise it’s not a date, you’re just friends enjoying each others company. One of my friend’s has this rule: he will only pay for a woman if he’s on a “date” with her, or he hopes to be sometime in the near future. If it’s just a girl he’s friends with (and he has plenty of female friends), there’s no reason he should pay, since he wouldn’t pay for his male friends is he went somewhere with them. I think that’s a good rule.
The only time I would not be bothered if my date EXPECTS me to pay, is if he asked me out. It’s rude to offer to take someone out and then have to pay for the privilege of accepting the invitation. If I made an offer to pay, and a man accepted it, I wouldn’t say that I’d be “mad”. Perhaps disappointed? If this is date 1 and the man asked me out, this will probably be his last date with me, unless I really enjoyed his company (very rare on a first date–usually a time when everyone’s nervous). However, if it’s my fifth date or so, and the guy has consistently been paying for everything, I wouldn’t mind paying for things.
In fact, with my current boyfriend, our first date involved about 8 hours of activities, and I ended up paying for dinner (he had paid for everything else, and I really liked him by that point). And now (we’ve been dating for about a year), I make significantly more money than him, so I have no problem splitting costs when we go out (usually I pay for one day and he pays for another, splitting the costs of one check seems really silly and trivial to us).
I totally agree girls should help guys when it comes to bill. No splitting.
Let’s see into this puzzle for me:
It’s our third date. He paid for our first and second coffee. I gave him a book (a little bit expensive)that he was in need.
We’re going for a movie which he has already seen (but he doesn’t mind enjoying it again coz it’s a good one).
I’d like to pay for the tickets. Just wondering how to make the offer tactfully.
Yet I also want to know if he really enjoys being with me or not (since if I pay I cannot know for sure he likes it that way or just because he doesn’t have to pay!!!)
Moreover, I want to ask him for ice cream after the movie as a surprise (he really loves that ice cream shop). Should I pay for the ice cream too?
“Yet I also want to know if he really enjoys being with me or not (since if I pay I cannot know for sure he likes it that way or just because he doesn’t have to pay!!!)”
Welcome to a mans world!!!
A guy asked me out – i let him pay for the coffee, i didn’t even make an offer to pay – i just thought it was normal that the guy should pay, besides, he was the one who asked me out.
So when he asked me out on a second date, he asked me if i could afford eating dinner, like – i’m asking you out, but is it ok if you pay for your own meal? It wasn’t even expensive! I was shocked, seriously.
And on our third date,we went bowling, and he asked me if i had any cash on. so we both payed. And now i want to dump him. And the only reason i went on a third date, is because i thought he was really cute. and he was.
He is really cute and smart. But sending a girl an sms after the FIRST date, asking her if she can AFFORD eating out – even if he knew the restaurant we were going to was kinda cheap – is a BAD MOVE. It’s such a shame, because he is relly cute. He just made a bad bad, horrible, mistake.
I feel sorry for him when he texts me good night with smileys. Cause I’m thinking, i’m no one-night-stand material – and he knows that, honey,i will never be your girlfriend. And all because of that one sms. Maybe he’s retarded. It’s so typical of me to find the psykos – why did he have to ruin?
And i know he’s really interested in me. oh, what a shame…
Bad question. The man should do it
Notice how most of the people leaving comments are saying, “If the man invites, then he should pay…otherwise it’s not really a date.” Well, how many women ask men out? It’s a simple case of women still wanting to get away with something while trying to pretend that they’re not equal.
If I invite a girl out, according to these comments, then I’m going to call the shots – where we eat, how long we stay out…and whether I ask her out again. I’m paying for my entertainment so I’m in control…and she is not. She can shut up and eat since that’s what most of you are advocating here. I guess we men are simply trying out the girl for a few hours (not unlike prostitution or simply renting the girl for a few hours) in which case IF I want a second date then she should be grateful that I wasn’t sick of her the first time.
Dating for BOTH parties is an investment of time, emotion and money. If women want men to pay for them. Any woman in today’s age who thinks she’s independent but at the same time expects a man to pay for her is simply a hypocrite who is taking advantage of the situation. If she had paid her half of the night then it would have been OUR night to decide…and we each would have invested something in it to make sure it goes well. If she pays nothing then she risks nothing and, therefore, doesn’t care as much as the man would about the success of the evening or the relationship. She got asked out, which is her idea of success because she’s thinking “Hmm…I could be hungry on Friday and I’d rather save some money than cook for myself, so sure I’ll go out with you. What’s your name again?” Men aren’t as shallow and actually want to go out with YOU – where or what we do isn’t as important.
Bottom line, ladies, is that we men also want to know that you’re interested in US and not just our money or a free meal. By paying for dinner, the beers and pool games, etc. I was obviously in charge, which is why I stared at the much hotter girl next to me all night. I say we men deserve to get something for putting up with selfish bitches like that…which is why I got a blowjob and kicked her out. After all, I paid for it! She can buy a jar of peanut butter and rent a DVD with her dog.
P.S. She showed up two hours late. The conversation was like talking to a redneck third grader. So I lost money AND my time. Meanwhile, she was fascinated by (but couldn’t keep up with) the conversation. Now she’s writing me emails wondering why I haven’t called her. Ha! She wants to go out again but hasn’t put anything into the relationship yet. Well, on the first date she got to be the asshole, and not it’s my turn.
Pay up, ladies. The 1920’s are over and you’re working now. That money isn’t just for lipstick and tampons.
Now its your turn? You mean to be the asshole? Because you already hit that mark. If you got a BJ out your night’s investment with the girl, you owe her regardless of what you spent. You don’t deserve to date anyone cheapskate.
Since I’m paying, then I guess I’m renting her, which means I can do what I want with her.
What’s that you’re crying out? She’s a woman with rights, independence and self-respect who has the right to decide? Well, those qualities apply all the time, not just when it’s convenient for her. Open your wallet or your legs. If I’m buying dinner for you then I’m buying you too…at least until I move on to someone better.
Tired of men cheating on you, ladies? Try showing up and making an effort in the relationship. Again, both people are investing time and emotion in the risk of a first date so both should pay. The excuse that she is a single mom has nothing to do with it. HER decision to get pregnant and end her relationship with the other man is not MY problem. It comes down to mutual respect, mutual honoring of each other’s time and emotions, and mutual presence on the date. The bill is mutual because society now says we are equal…and women love equality unless it’s not in their favor.
How about when I was fixed up on a blind date with a female friend’s girlfriend? It was like I was doing her friend a favor and STILL I had to pay. Shouldn’t my friend have picked up the tab? Shouldn’t her friend have offered since it was a blind date that I was asked to participate in?
I have read through a number of responses to above issue and my standpoint is that on the date a guy should always offer and the girl will show in her turn if she wants to have a relationship or just a free meal and a quick screw for a few weeks. Personally I pay for most of the dates, which is wrong for many reasons but the most important is the fact that she is also a human being and not a “charity case” so if the girl wants to hang out with you then let her cover dates sometimes. It will take a lot of stress off from both of you. Today I am going out and I will change my ways as I am tired of paying for people I don’t even consider friends not to mention girlfriends. Bottom line, there are a lot of girls and then there are a bunch of “gold diggers” out there and if the girl does not offer to pay at least 30% of the time while you dating then she is probably using you and you should consider if the sex is that good.
In this modern age the woman should absolutely and categorically pay half. I don’t even think it is an option anymore and the idea that the guy has to pay (or even offer to pay) for dinner is so outdated.
Of course a little flattery goes a long way but this is just one step to far and hey, don’t people realise there is a recession?
There are so many different opinions on this topic that I think it’s fairest to say there are no right or wrong answers. You just need to choose a partner whose philosophy about dating complements yours. This is essential if you want those first few dates to go smoothly without any uncomfortable moments. In my experience, money is one of the easiest ways to ruin an otherwise positive date with someone.
That said, here are my personal opinions on the matter:
I believe the guy should always pay. Period. I think it’s sad that this is even a question. Women should be suspicious of men who don’t pay, especially on the first date. If he can’t buy you a coffee, he’s a cheap jerk who is probably stingy in other areas, not just finances. I am speaking from experience having dated many men during the past few years, most of them not worth the time of day. Yes, I am socially conservative if you want to call it that, but I think there is something to be said for chivalry even in today’s world. I went on a lunch date last year with a guy who had no manners at all. When the bill came, he looked at me and then back at the bill and I looked at him. It was the most awkward moment ever. He finally said “Do you want to split it?” I was offended, but I didn’t want to make a scene, so I just said “Sure, we can split it;” however, that was our last date.
I disagree with the person above who said that he is “renting” her or “using” her by buying her dinner. He is simply being a gentleman and letting her know he cares about her and values her company. Unfortunately, men of this type are an endangered species these days and the fact that so many so called “modern women” get turned off by chivalry only confuses men even more to the point where a well bred man doesn’t know what to do anymore. If he pays, that means he was raised well which is important in other areas of life if your relationship develops beyond the dating stage.
Luckily for me, I have found a true gentleman, and yes, I did offer to pay even on the first date, but he would not let me. When I told him “you get points for buying me lunch” he looked at me with a puzzled expression and said “I thought that was just common courtesy.” Totally my type of guy! On the second and third dates, he grabbed the check before I had a chance to even look at it and I did offer to pay for the tip both of those times, but he said “No, I’ve got this covered.” After that, I stopped offering because he clearly likes paying and I appreciate the gesture. A woman deserves a man who opens doors for her and treats her like the lady she is. I love it and after dating this guy, I will never accept anything less in a relationship. I think he may be The One. I agree with the reader above who said that if he expects the woman to pay, it isn’t a date. You’ll just be friends from that point on.
I don’t think it is in any way hypocritical for women to have equal work-equal pay and not pay in the dating scene. I believe that the business and personal worlds have different sets of rules. There are other ways for women to be “givers” in a relationship when the guy is paying for everything. For instance, I plan to invite my boyfriend over for a home cooked meal on Valentine’s Day and I’m making all his favorite foods. Guys appreciate that kind of thing because it shows them that we really aren’t gold diggers. We just like to date someone with class.
I so agree agree with you DanKit. I think the world is short of real men who want to provide if they can.
And the idea that both parties should always split the bill evenly (after a few dates) doesn’t take into account that if one has more expendable income than the other, dating puts a hardship on the one that has less expendable income. And by expendable I mean funds after the necessary bills, not including bills racked up by extravagance. People need to be sensitive to one another and work together.
Perhaps more men are realising what a “real man” really is, and refusing to play a part in it.
Also, your statement about having more money makes no sense. By that exact same logic, you could say “what if he happens to be a murderer” to someone campaigning for gay rights.
God, are you living in the dark ages! How in the world is a ‘home-cooked meal’ in any way equal to the 20 or 30 dates he had to take you on just to get one meal from you? There is nothing you (or any other female) can say about showing appreciation on a date, chivalry, caring about the date etc. that doesn’t go both ways AND YOU KNOW IT! You just love the sweet deal you have as a female in that you THINK you are entitled to free meals etc. indefinitely simply because of your gender!! You have a job, pay all your own bills, take care of yourself. I have a job, pay all my own bills, take care of myself. Why in the world is it expected of me to pay for everything if WE TOGETHER decide to go out for the evening? Whats in it for me? And how is it that you don’t see this as buying your affection? Is that your definition of equality? If I have to ‘buy your affection’ then I want out before the first date!
You are crazy and a user of men!
Why should men pay?
Because women takes much more time and effort and money in preparation for a date.
If I’m wearing a $500 outfit compared to shirt and jeans, it’s only courteous for the guy to pay.
And women don’t typically wear the same outfit for different dates.
Some women take less time than me to get ready and look great, if you cant do that I’m sorry but that’s your problem. The time and effort that the man puts in going to work all week does not count?
I don’t want you turning up in a $500 outfit to go zip lining, maybe if we are going to a wedding. OK
From this I can assume that you spend at least $1000 a week on outfits, and your complaining about paying half the bill of maybe $100. that’s wrong, just wrong. You want to spend money on something you want to spend money on, and certainly not on a outfit for someone you have not met yet to go on a date with somewhere in the future.
I invited a friend to a concert a couple hours away. My tickets, my vehicle, hey that’s cool. We ate a light dinner before and she says: You’re going to pay for this aren’t you?
I was really put off by this, but didn’t let on. I think whoever asks should pay, but the other can catch the tip. In this case, she could have chipped in.
When I took her home, I didn’t try to kiss her or anything. That’s stupid anyway.
She’s a musician, a good partner for concerts, but that’s as far as things will get.
You did invite her, which usually implies you will cover the expenses. But when she asked if your were going to cover it, you could have said “sure, but would you like to get the tip”? Most women wouldn’t be offended by that.
Considering the uncertainty and varied opinions of who should pay what, and when, I would discuss expenses before hand if you don’t want to or can’t cover the whole bill. If you had intended to cover everything, then you could have stated that up front, so as to avoid any questions like the one she put to you during dinner. Hind site is 20/20, but live and learn is another applicable adage.
Me and my ex boyfriend used to go out…a lot! He would always try to take me out and such, but I always have to pay about HALF of what we get. He says the quote, “I always take you out, be happy for what I’m doing for you.” Well, he’s not necessarily taking ME out because I pay too. When we go to a store, or get a quick meal, he always looks at ME when the cashier/server says the total price, as if I should pay. When I give in and pay instead (because I can read in his mind that he truly wanted me to pay) he then complains and says, “I should’ve paid for it.” Well, then he shouldn’t have hesitated to do so.
Once we were eating at iHop, and he asked the server for a SPLIT tab. I was like, WTF? I mean, ‘spending-wise’, we were kinda like BUDDIES, rather than boyfriend-girlfriend.
I think a girl should chip in, but not more than 30% of the time. I still think the guy should pay MORE than half….but it’s always nice for a girl to pay…a little.
Only 30% of the time you say? Then you are only 30% his equal. Ladies, try as you may, you can’t have equality only when it is convenient for you. It just doesn’t work and I will resent you every time for trying- and you will NOT get a second shot at being with me.
God! You’re an embarrassment to your gender.
I just went out on a first date where at the end I offered to pay part of dinner and he said no he would take care of dinner and I can pay for desert. Well the place we went to after was an expensive place and after ordering a couple of glasses of wine each at $15 a glass plus desert and tip the bill was over $70. At the end I paid more than he did since the restaurant he took me to was inexpensive. Needless to say he did not get a second date. Not cool at all. Either he is clueless or just cheap. You never let a girl to pay on the first date! It is not that he was poor or a starving artist. He definitely makes a lot more money than I. Owns his own company. Plus he is asked me out. I am giving him the opportunity to get to know me and date me. He should be a gentleman and be trying to impress me to get a second date. Also, guys when a girl offers to pay on the 1st date and insists on it then she is just not into you other than just friends. And yes, after a few dates and if there is interest of a further relationship then the girl should offer to pay at times, cooking for him, etc. I hear the rule is every fourth time. This way the man will always feel like he is the man in the relationship but not taken advantage off. Below is a small piece of what a modern knight means for a non feminist lady in todays world. Yes there are many women that are into chivalry and are worth it. :-)
Be a modern day Knight
Strive to be a gentleman at all times, show a women that you are attentive, respectful and well mannered.
Walk on the outside on the sidewalk when escorting a lady
Pull the chair out for the lady
Always have a handkerchief available
Carry the umbrella
Walk her home or call to make sure she arrives home safely
On a cold or inclement climatic condition immediately offer your jacket
Offer your seat on a bus/train
Introduce her to people you bump into
Hold the door
Dining out, place the order for both of you
Always pay for your date.
So, I’ve been out with this guy three times now. The first date was for coffee and he payed. Whoopee he bought me a coffee! Second and third dates were cocktails and cocktails and appetizers. We split the bills down the middle. I don’t feel good about it. First few dates the man should pay, especially if he makes a lot more money than you do. I think he’s either cheap or having money issues. Neither of which I want to be involved in. I’m used to men “courting” me.
Or just…don’t date. Especially not women!
I think that the most important issue is to have the financial ability to cover the date for your companion and especially for yourself. I’m in a relationship where both of us are pretty much broke (students). I have a bit more money than him usually and he kinda takes advantage of that. He is the first one to suggest going out, especially with our friends, but he almost never has cash to buy even a taco bell meal, so I end up with the bill. I’m a really giving person, and I absolutely don’t mind paying my share or even part of his most of the time. But it gets old paying for both of us over and over again, with him only occasionally and slightly grudgingly reciprocating with free meal cards and cafeteria passes. I love the guy but generosity is not his strong suite.
So, I guess my point is, that this is the way most guys get treated and it is really not OK.
Congrats, you know how most men feel every day of their lives. Cry me a river.
How funny that you don’t even recognize what you’re saying is what men are expected to do it all the time….
Geez, is this forum just full of idiot females?
I’m a traditionalist, so I think that the man should always pay. However, when you get to the “comfortable” stage its nice to be treated once in a while!
Not for nothing, but no one had mentioned how much it costs a lady to look like a lady for a first date. In the circles I live in, women put a lot of prep into going out on a date … makeup, nails, new outfit, etc… but I think what it really comes down to is the circles you are in and finding a match for you. I always expect a man to pay on any pre-you’ve-met-my-parents date, but that’s what a gentleman does in my world. Many men would be bothered by that, but that just means we aren’t a good fit. In the South, women are still raised to be treated like a Princess and act like a Lady. And that works great for me!
Such a fascinating discussion! So many comments, so many heated opinions.
I’m a 28 year old man living in New York City, and I always pay for the first few dates. When the tab comes at the end of the evening, my experience is that the girl always reaches for a her purse, or weakly makes an offer to contribute … but never insists upon it. I’ve dated many women in New York City, and I have yet to meet one who insisted on contributing to the expenses of a date. I always just pay it and she never makes a sound.
That being said: it would be nice! If a girl insisted on splitting the check for the second date, for example, or decided that the third date was on her… well, that would be very nice indeed. But it’s never happened.
The bottom line is that – unless you are an investment banker or a lawyer, and I know there are plenty of those in New York City – dating is an extremely expensive activity for the man and a great source of free drinks and meals for the woman. I believe in chivalry too… as I say, I always pay, and I always give up my seat for a woman on the subway, open a door, pull out a chair, etc. But it would be nice, once in a while, if a girl made an earnest offer to contribute to the second or third date, even if I turned it down.
You seem like someone I would like to date. And I would offer to cover or split the bill after the second or third date. I do try to pitch in or buy a round of drinks or two, but it depends on what I can afford at the time. If I’m asked out, I don’t expect to have to pay unless its discussed in advance so I can decide if I can afford to go out. Just because women are equal, it doesn’t mean they can necessarily match expenses. Cheapskate men need to understand that.
JAJAJAJAJ 21st century women…. A guy try to impress a girl and she will always want more. I just don’t date somebody expecting me to pick up the tab. She is not doing me a favor, if we date is because we BOTH are interested in get to know each other…..
It doesn’t mean that ocassionally I won’t pick up the tab or that i’, cheap. I live in reallity and the time where the man has to be the provider should be long gone…. In real life, in a long erm relationship, marriage or whatever. except some exemtions, both have to share life expenses…..
Those whom try to get the man to pay, are just trying to get a free ride. And I will avoid them for a serious relationship.
Until men can start baring children, things will never be totally equal.
Women carry the brunt of responsibility and risk to there careers, educations, relationships, etc.. if they should become pregnant.
Birth control is not a hundred percent, men often refuse to ware condoms (which puts a financial burden on the woman for oral or other forms of contraceptives too) So its not unreasonable that many women look for men that can and are willing to step up if and when necessary. Dating provides that bench test. If a man is not willing to pay for meals, why should a woman think she depend on him to provide for a child if one should result.
Get real people, dating leads to relationships which often leads to unplanned results. Women need to be responsible and men need to show that they are willing and able to take responsibility if necessary. If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Are you for real? Suddenly the argument of who pays for a date jumps forward to men refusing to wear condoms and getting women pregnant?
Spare me the BS. You sound demented. Is your post relevant to the topic or is it a rant about some guy who got you pregnant and gilted you? Find some other message board if you want to rant about pregnancy and all this other BS you brought up. This site is talking about dating, as in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd dates. It is not about relationships and getting pregnant. maybe you had a bad personal experience with the guy who impregnated you, but if you want to throw out generalized degrading comments about men you can go f^ck yourself because you insult me.
And lastly, where do you get this impression that men always have more money than women? I’ve dated women who have asked me out, made lots more money than me, and still stiffed me with a bill!!! Open up your closed off mind and consider there are all types of people out there, not just the ones immediately surrounding you.
I lost my job recently (well, actually 5 months ago but it is still raw)and I have had no option but to let my fiance pay half or even all of our very infrequent dinner dates.
Here is the problem.
I don’t want her to pay for dinner but if she doesn’t then we simply wouldn’t go out and everything would depend on us eating in but until I get a job again, it is going to be an issue for us.
Luckily for me she doesn’t make a big song and dance about it and for that I am grateful and here is the thing…I am so in awe of her doing this for me that I really understand what a loving, caring relationship really is.
Any girl that says he should pay to spend time with me is really just a whore. I mean really, isn’t that the arrangement one has with a prostitute? Only with the prostitute, you’re guaranteed sex, whereas you can spend $100 on a date in NYC and the girl will never return your phone calls afterward. At least the whore is honest and gives something in return.
I think guys and girls should split the first date. Why should the guy take all the risk. If they like each other, he can take her out and pay for the second date.
To Serial Dater: I think you are missing the point here. It’s not about the money!!! Paying for a first date is a symbol, just like opening a car door, or pushing out a chair. No woman is so cheap that she can’t afford to buy herself dinner, or so weak that she can’t open her own door… but maybe when she’s 7 months pregnant, she wont be able to do those things as easily. Do you get what I mean?
Men do these things as a SYMBOL to show women that they like (and only women they like) that they are would be able to take care of them in the future should a more serious relationship form. Like when a woman is pregnant and can’t cook for herself, or needs someone to help with taking care of the baby- how does she select for a guy that will take care of her needs? By paying attention to how he acts while she’s dating him. And this is not limited to, but INCLUDES stuff like offering to pay for dates, or opening doors, etc.
That’s all it means, and that’s the only reason why women are so interested in selecting for guys that do these things. There’s no inherent value or meaning in them except what they might mean in the long run…. There’s that saying actions speak louder than words, it’s just a way for women to be able to tell a guys real intentions- and it’s not foolproof, but what other methods would you suggest when you are just barely getting to know someone?
See my reply to Gerard.
Too funny Grill!
I found every contribution interesting…
I just started dating this guy and am totally into him, we had our third date last Saturday (24th July), so I offered to split the bill, he was like WTF, ‘…paying was his responsibility and stuff…’
Income wise, am better, he is a student and does odd jobs to get cash while I am better off financially because I have a steady job, I thought he turned down my offer because I dint approach the topic well which is how i eventually stumbled on this blog.
He also said I shouldn’t worry about his finances, that if he dint have money, he wouldn’t ask me out, he will offer excuse like, ‘am busy, hanging with the boys and stuff…’, I quite appreciate his openness but…
It should always be the man who pays, regardless of whether he is working, the lower earner or whatever. As long as there is an understanding of this as the “rule” for the first date then it should never be a problem.
I’m 32 years old & married. I’ve NEVER paid for a date in my entire life. I never even THOUGHT twice about it. The only time I paid for a dinner was when it came to birthdays & holidays. Yes, I have taken out boyfriends on their birthdays. Birthdays & Christmases have been the only times when I have gone into my pocket to treat a man. I’ve never felt guilty & the men never felt slighted. Now, I do live in a small town so word must have gotten around throughout the years, & I can honestly say that I HAVE NOT had many dates in general throughout my life. I’ve had a limited amount of boyfriends, but for the most part, they were long-term relationships. Out of all of my female peers, I did get the LEAST amount of calls, the least amount of men interested, & a lot of men who didn’t even know me, put me down right to my face.
It is a long & hard road to be traditional & old-school. Many men cringe when they hear about women like myself, but I couldn’t care less. I ALWAYS kept my money in my pocket, I was always polite & respectful to each & every date, & always tried to carry myself with self-respect. I may be “stingy” but you’ll never see me looking @ or flirting with other men. I always gave 100% attention & interest to each & every date. If any of these men prefer to be with other types of women, so be it. All I know is that by being myself, I was able to weed out the guys that I had absolutely NO interest with. & yes, these things do have a way of working themselves out, cuz the same guys that I never had an interest in felt exactly the same way about me. I always just waited for “the right ones” to come by. It’s better to stand your ground & wait, cuz both parties will be happy in the long run.
I think the man should ALWAYS pay and if I’m being honest, I’m not sure that I would want to go out with a girl who insists on paying! I want my women to stay women, not wannabee men.
@Jill. You sound like my kind of woman and rather than being perceived as different, I embrace the fact that you want to be a woman and be treated like one with respect and courtesy. Perhaps I’m old fashioned but it works for me and women like Jill should be applauded. Whatever happened to respect eh?
“Who Should Pay for the Date? The Dreaded Dilemma Examined”
=> What a load of nonsense. It because of this politically correct BS, that has made life unnecessarily complicated than it already is!
I’m a guy, and I’m paying for the date. I’m not interested in keeping tallies. I’m not interested in some BS survey on some women’s site. And I’m certainly not expecting sex because I’m paying. I’m paying because I’m interested in her.
A woman who insists on splitting the check or paying for her share is lacking the art of graciousness. It changes a date into a business transaction.
Hell, you each might as well bring an accountant and a lawyer to the date; so you can ensure, verify, and legally document that both parties get an EXACT split on the bill…That’ll guarantee to kill the romance quicker than the fastest car in the world!
LOL! Can’t agree more.
I agree. I went on a date today and I drove 45 minutes for it. At the end he asked me, “so… did you want to get it?” WTF no?
He wanted to go bowling later and I turned around and went home without any notice.
Sounds like you did the right thing.
This whole who pays thing is weird. When I was in the military I never paid on dates. Later when I lived with my boyfriend, we split the bills and he’d pay for most of the cost or the entire date. If he knew he couldn’t pay he’d tell me. Then if I really wanted to do whatever it was, I’d pay or we’d split it. That seemed to work- at least the money part.
Then I dated this guy much younger than me who said the way he learned it was that whoever invites the other person needs to pay. Sadly we didn’t figure that out until we were both upset about it. I don’t know how people discuss this stuff but it seems to be a good idea if you’re on the same page.
And BTW, it is SUPER expensive being a girl. Clothes cost more. Most of us girls can’t get away with 2 pairs of shoes, 2 belts, 2 pairs of pants and a few button-ups. We pretty much can’t wear the same dress to multiple functions within the same year or to same event the following year. I don’t know why, but people notice and frown at you for it, or worse make fun of you behind your back. And most shoes don’t work with most outfits. There’s a fashion racket I guess. Then there’s the hair. Unless you wanted to see us in a crew cut. We wear makeup; we buy expensive eye cream and face cream; some of us tan and get waxed; we do our nails; we go to expensive fitness classes; we get facials; we wear jewelery; most us don’t know how to fix our cars ourselves (yes, that’s not so much about dating…). And they charge us more for all of it! Seriously it is unreal. Try the comparison yourself, but definitely account for quality. We get gypped on that too.
I know this doesn’t accurately describe everyone on either side. I just wanted to point out all the potential expenses that can go into a girl’s preparation for a date.
Oh spare me the “It’s Super Expensive Beinbg a Girl” BS!! and how many women always get free drinks at bars and how many women get let into clubs for free…not to mention ahead of the line. Some women spend moderately on clothes, some spend stupidly. It’s not my concern. I knew one girl who had 8 pairs of $1,000 shoes…that is just stupid.
I don’t judge a woman on how expensive her clothing is. Guys have plenty of things to spend money on- it’s just not usually clothes. The point of the woman at least offering to split the bill really tells ya what type of person she is. So many women are moochers today. I’ve met women before who think they are owed dinner the finest restaurant and unlimited spending. If women want to hark back to old rules that men should pay for everything then they are gonna get stuck with the old rules that they should stay home and clean the house. Just as there are cheap guys out there who try to weasel out of paying there are women moochers and gold diggers. Hell I even heard a story from a female friend of mine about a girl she knew who felt it was he right to always get free meals and drinks. One time this girl went out with a guy and another girl to a rock concert. They stopped at a bar for some drinks and before it and she EXPECTED the guy to pick up her WHOLE tab!!!! Even though this was NO date of any kind. The second woman split the tab with the guy. My friend think this girl is a huge moocher and low life loser.
So, there are some women out there who think they are God’s gift to humanity. Guess what? If she wants to bail on me because I made her pay part of the bill…she can fly right out of there and take off….I would boot her low life ass to the curb anyway if she stuck around.
Hello LOCUTUS. I think you already mentioned this girl. Do you think I’m defending people you hate from your life? I don’t know you or the people you hang out with. And you do not know anyone else here either.
No one is obligated to do anything. I do not need to defend my post. If we are having a discussion it is important to add information. I’m only interested in the discussion- not in being right. There is no such thing as being right when it is opinion that is concerned.
Who are you really angry at?
Well there are some on this very board who think men should always pay. Just look at AussieBears post on how he thinks men should always pay and that splitting the bill is politically correct BS. Then see how Cheria wholeheartedly agrees with him.
No I did not mention the girl I spoked of before- that was a different scenario. The previous scenario was a woman I met just to meet- she is the one who insisted it was just a meeting- no dress up no nothing. She was older than me and made damn good money too. I anticiapted having a few drinks, which we did, and I had no problem paying for them. She mentioned ordering food since it was getting near dinner time. I really didn;’t want to since this was a pricey restaurant, but I figured what the heck, we’ll just split the food bill. Also, rememeber she chose the place and the time to meet at- was convenient for her. I didn’t really care because it was just a first meeting for drinks.
So, after we were done she didn’t offer to pay one ounce of the friggin bill. I dropped over $150 with tip and was curious she didn’t even offer. I even waited there to imply that she might offer to pay some and she didn’t even make any attempt. And this woman was FAR from poor. She had a better job than me and was older. Just goes to show you what losers there are out there. Now I know other women who will offer to split a $30 bill. I would always refuse to allow them to, but it gives me a good feeling that they are a good person and not a moocher when I see that happen. This is why I am so against the common thought on here that men should pay the bill always. I have even talked on the phone to some women who believe men should pay the bill EVERY time- no matter how many dates. The women who told me this I ended up NEVER meeting at all. That put me off to her immediately. Browse this message board and you’ll see some comments from some women that think they are elite or something. Total BS.
In response to post dated: September 19, 2011 at 12:51 pm (for some reason there was no reply button at the bottom of this post…)
Hi LOCUTUS. I understand how that experience with the older woman was frustrating. The whole thing is awkward to begin with. I wonder if in that case it would be better to discuss what was going to be paid for, prior to doing it? No need to respond- only if you want.
If these issues were clearer, we’d all have a lot less choices.
I agree.. I am a woman, I actually offer to pay most the time. I know my boyfriend isn’t doing so good with money.. I don’t expect him to pay for crap.. He is an amazing man and that shouldn’t make him less of who he is! However.. I would like it if he did chip in a little.. I don’t even care if it’s less than half. it would save me some money. We both work at the same job.. but I am a saver. I don’t have a $300 loan on a car.. I saved for mine actually. But $300 isn’t nothing to me. I do agree that girls spend a lot of money on themselves though.. I do. I don’t go crazy on clothes though.. although I do like to pick up something at least once a month. Shoes aren’t everything to me.. clothes are more so.
I have needs.. and they aren’t cheap.. For my complexion, my shampoo, eye cream, medications, makeup, hair dye, hell I do my hair myself yet I still am staying at the same amount in my bank account.. <- (Not good I am trying to save more) it usually cost 150 for a girl to get her hair done.. NO.. don't think so.. I'm not paying that shit.. do it myself. Food… I buy food for me everyday at the store so no one else eats my crap. (I live with my mom and brother) Gas.. cell phone.. insurance.. every other thing anyone has to pay for on top of all of my needs. It is really expensive.. every little thing….That money I saved was hard earned money.. but even if my boyfriend was doing okay.. I would still offer to pay.. because that's just WHO I AM.. I don't just care about only myself. I'm not selfish. I LOVE my boyfriend, and I would never want him to go through any trouble to get me something.. He got my a diamond bracelet.. I told him I don't need any of that… but he still got it.. and is making payments on it.. I admire it but, I don't need it, but since he got it for me.. it means everything.. It's the meaning behind it.. Not the flashy diamonds!
Well i agree you picking up the entire check is not right. But women want equal rights i dont think the man paying for everything is equal.
What if a girl decides to accept a date and actually get compensated—not in cash obviously, but like through a virtual currency that she can use to get cash or donate to charity.
There’s a site I’m trying to get into but it’s invite only
what do you think? can girls actually make money by accepting practicedates? i’m sure some guys would rather have a date to practice with than to continually hit up the bar/club scene…
Uh, are you really that bad at math that you can’t split a check accurately (not to mention the fact that smartphones come with calculators)? Newsflash: it’s 2011. Teh wimminz have jobs now! We can pay for our share! It is not necessary to show us your dudely paying-for-stuff prowess, because, as grownup humans, we too are able to work for a living and pay for stuff too. A guy who insists on paying is a red-flag to me, because it makes me think he’s got something to prove or he’s expecting sexual favors in return and that’s not how I roll.
You have an Awesome personality!
Excellent comment! I totally agree and I’m so glad to hear that there are men out there who understand that it’s not about the money. It’s about a genuine interest for the person and getting to know them! Thank you so much!
Lol dafuq are you, like 99 years old? I love it when a woman asks to pay, even though its sort of programmed to pay for both of us, occasionally we split it.
This comment was from 2010, however I couldn’t agree more with you. Dating is suppose to be fun and exciting..not an awkward transaction. Regardless a man who pays shows character and courtesy. It does not mean that the women is taking advanatge of the man… if you expect a lady to bear children, cook, clean, and work… there is a system and a structure that works. Why make it awkward.
If it’s not been clearly established that the particular woman I’m dating at the moment is going to cook, clean, bear children, etc., for ME, then I see no reason to pay for her.
I’m trying to make a habit of not paying her way the first date. I’m still getting to know her and it brings with it the expectation of intimacy, which is awkward/unfair for both of us. If it’s getting to date 3-5 and I’ve decided I want to start investing in that girl, then I’ll start coming out of pocket for SOME of her expenses freely.
I am another person who is glad to see a gentleman left in this world. So many men expect a woman to bear his children, give up her life to bear those kids, and remain true to him with nothing in return.
If a man feels he should not pay for a date and wants to make it awkward for the woman, what makes any of these women think he will be kinder as a partner. Often, these men will act like a woman who wants marriage akin to a prostitute while he sees no issue of the woman having a baby as a single woman rather than his wife. Wanting a good quality life with a man is not being a gold-digger. Men love to label any woman who expects something more than a McDonald’s burger as a gold-digger to keep her from daring to want more.
Men will spend more on their cars or football premier TV packages while expecting sex to be for free. Men will also pay for the lap dance in a strip club and then choke at the thought of taking a woman. whom “he wants to get to know” aka have sex with at will, to a decent restaurant.
If that is your view on sex- a man takes a woman out and then she repays him with sex…no wonder why you are f^cked up? That is pretty sad you view sex like that. In your head you think woman give sex as a payment back for something or men are priviliged to have sex with you. If a woman acts like it’s a privilege to have sex with her she can screw- I’m immediately turned off! What’s with the Hitler mentality you have? Sex is an equal thing both parties want and do when they feel it’s right- could be after the 1st date or the 20th date. If you go out expecting a great dinner and with repayment via sex then you’re going out with the sleazebags of this world and in fact you’re a sleazebag yourself. Don’t compare guys like that to decent guys, it’s f^cking insulting!
You really have some cracked up views on dating and sex. I think you really need counseling.
Also, you wouldn’t know a gentleman if he fell from the sky and landed on your f^cking head! LOL.
I could not have said it better: ” Men love to label any woman who expects something more than a McDonald’s burger as a gold-digger to keep her from daring to want more.”
I enjoy reading your posts. In fact, it made me realize a couple things in my life. I already knew what is up but your post just reaffirmed it. Nice girls need to hear what you have to say cause there is a lot of losers out there trying to have their cake and eat it too.
On top of that you write very well and unlike that “Locutus” guy, you don’t stoop down to a level where you find the need to use profanity and be disrespectful in general. This man has some anger management issues to resolve and is clearly uneducated.
Did you seriously read ALL of her posts? Did you read the part about girls paying back with sex? Do you honestly agree with that? I view sex as an act that is totally mutual and desired by both parties, not as a payback for something. Would you seriously want me to take you out and spend lots of money on you and EXPECT sex in return? That is exactly what Marylin is saying! Sex should be NOBODY’s expectation. It should be somthing totally mutual. If you agree with me then you are AGAINST what Marylin is saying. If you don’t believe so then go back and REREAD ALL of her posts- she just made like 4 new posts.
I am not condoning guys who are cheapskates- I know those types. I think a girl should just assume she is going to pay for half the date. I have NEVER asked a girl to pay and I always judge a girl’s character if she at least offers to pay a portion of the bill or EVEN just offer to pay the tip. Typically I take girls out and it costs at least $100 after you get drinks and a good dinner. OR if we go to a different place for more drinks afterwards then I it would be nice for them to buy those drinks after I payed $150 for dinner and wine!!!!!! Do you not think that is fair? Many women think it’s their God given right to be handed everything. They are sorry pieces of sh^t. My sister would tell me to NOT let people like that take advantage of me and to tell them to shove it up their a$$!!! Just as I would tell my sister to stay away from a guy who mooches off her or complains about things that only cost a couple of bucks.
There are MANY women like that- they think they are princesses to be catered to. You have NO IDEA what it’s like out there. Women who can’t even offer to pay the tip or to buy a drink afterwards ARE CHEAP and LAZY BUMS!!!!! Again, there are plenty of GOOD women out there, but you never know what you’re gonna find. And by my experiences even women who seem very decent are many times NOT!! It’s not easy.
Being a woman I understand what Marilyn was saying in respect to the sex issue.
She was just stating the fact that when a man asks a woman out on a date then it’s obvious that he has hopes to be involved with her intimately in the future. So if a man hopes to get something special from the woman and asks her out then it’s only a given that he should pay for that date he set up don’t you think? Generally, women think of their bodies and sex differently than men. To most women, sex is a big deal; they are sharing themselves, not just their body. Sex is extremely personal to a woman. I’m sure we all heard how men are different from women when sex is concerned. I think if we weren’t wired differently then this thread would not exist.
Yes, there are loosers and there are quality people and we all deal with both. But the courtship rules must stay the same.
I think u misunderstood Marilyn.
You’re wrong on so many levels.
“She was just stating the fact that when a man asks a woman out on a date then it’s obvious that he has hopes to be involved with her intimately in the future.”
-Really? It’s a friggin date! I might hate the woman after the date. Of course if we like each other then there may be a presumption of sex from BOTH parties. Why the inequality? You mena woman have no desire for sex?
“So if a man hopes to get something special from the woman and asks her out then it’s only a given that he should pay for that date he set up don’t you think? ”
-If you’re going out with a guy just for sex and it’s known from the start then that is NOT what I am talking about as dating. That’s basically a hookup. If that’s what you’re into then do it up. I have never taken any woman out with such an expectation. You and Marylin speak of wanting gentlemen? This is NOT the type of date where you look for a gentleman. You are there ONLY for sex! You find sleazy guys like this and then you are complaining they are not gentleman? You really are a piece of work. You’re NOT acting like a lady either doing this. Why even have the date- just jump to the sex? It’s now very obvious why you and Marylin are making these comments. You’re talking about PLAYERS and then complaining. You’re both fools. If you want to hookup with players then STFU and don’t complain. Morons! Incredible.
“Generally, women think of their bodies and sex differently than men. To most women, sex is a big deal; they are sharing themselves, not just their body. Sex is extremely personal to a woman. I’m sure we all heard how men are different from women when sex is concerned. I think if we weren’t wired differently then this thread would not exist.”
-Total female chauvinist pig. You think men have no feelings? You talk like women are sooooo special they deserve such special treatment. Here’s a newsflash for ya MgMo, I have been USED by women I have liked for sex before. I really liked them and they dumped me a week later because they met some other guy while drunk at a club. It hurt me as I really liked this woman.
And if you met her you would think she was the sweetest nicest of girls too. Instead she was a cold hearted SCUMBAG. Oh, but women are so special…BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You think women are so sweet and special? You’re f^cking full of yourself!!!! Many women can be just as slimey as the worst men, if not worse. Funny most women would agree with me too- except ones like you who think you deserve special treatment. I’ll show ya special tretament, I’ve got a special foot for ya that you can shove right up your special a$$!
“Yes, there are loosers and there are quality people and we all deal with both. But the courtship rules must stay the same.”
-Well, you’re f^cked and let me tell ya from the majority of female friends I talk to they agree a woman should at least offer to pay a little bit of the money, if not half. Again, the guy does not have to accept it, but he sure feels like he has met a decent person with good morals when she at least makes that offer, let me tell ya.
“I think u misunderstood Marilyn”
-On the contrary, I think I understand both of you just perfectly, now. Read my comments above. If you want to hooku pwith players and you can’t handle it then don’t f^cking do it! If not, then STFU and stop whining like a pathetic crybaby. God, I have a couple of female friends who would b^tch slap the both of you after listening to your pathetic whining.
Anyone else feel free to chime in on these comments from MgMo and Marylin. I think it is now clear what type of people they truly are. Agreed?
Also, if you want a relationship to be about more than just sex, you should SHOW him that you’re good for more than just your body. This means actually paying your half. If he has to pay for everything and give you special treatment, then what reason does he have to stay with you other than sex?
It’s impossible to have a normal conversation with you. You are are very rude firecracker. Because of that, I will not even bother to address your most recent claims and accusations directed at me. You have been through some trauma with women apparently and so maybe looking into counseling to get that anger of yours in control would be something good to look into.
Your little threats about slapping me along with Marilyn are pretty funny though.
You mean your whining mouth is actually gonna close now? Wow.
“I enjoy reading your posts. In fact, it made me realize a couple things in my life. I already knew what is up but your post just reaffirmed it. Nice girls need to hear what you have to say cause there is a lot of losers out there trying to have their cake and eat it too.
On top of that you write very well and unlike that “Locutus” guy, you don’t stoop down to a level where you find the need to use profanity and be disrespectful in general. This man has some anger management issues to resolve and is clearly uneducated.”
Very true, MgMo. Thank-you for your good words. Sadly, more and more males are behaving as Locutus by being crude and vile. This tactic has been used to keep a woman in her place and dare not expect anything from a relationship. Women have bought into this mentality to the point where many women will buy their own engagement rings and pay for the entire wedding and honeymoon. Then, the same women are surprised when the man either refuses to work or is very cheap in the marriage expecting the wife to pay for everything.
We all pay for future expectations of a service. Anyone who says differently should see what happens if cellular service is not paid for and see how quickly the mobile carrier will disconnect phone service. Same goes for rent. Don’t pay the rent and future residence is going to be threatened. Asking a woman on a date is possible expectation of a future relationship. A man does not ask a woman out on a date just to hang out as buddies. One thing I do agree with on the post of the vulgar person is how women have bought into not acting like ladies and will not expect a man to treat her better.
A woman gives up a lot if she does go into marriage with a man. Having a man’s babies makes it harder to keep up a career and will often end continuation of education. If society did not realise how much a woman gives up in marriage, there would be no need for alimony or child support if the man chooses to leave the marriage after claiming her was bored of fatherhood and monogamy and want to trade his wife in for a better model.
Entering into an exclusive relationship cuts off the woman possibly meeting someone who would be better for her and many women settle when it comes to a man rather than hold out for someone who is worthy. No gentleman is going to approach a woman who is living with a man or a lady who has mentioned she has a boyfriend. A man often has no trouble paying for a round of drinks with his pals but will blanch at taking a woman out to dinner saying she is a gold-digger because she ordered a steak instead of pasta.
Most people are willing to pay if they invite a friend out for an evening. I invited a friend out for a get-together before the holidays. She is struggling financially but felt there was an expectation for her to pay for a meal in a more expensive place than she was used to going. I told her that I invited her and to order what she wanted. Her expectation to pay and even saying how it was fine to go eat at a fast-food restaurant is conditioning of how women are told that they are bad people if they accept anything of value from a man and it filters down to their friends. Same goes for inviting a person over to the house for dinner. Would anyone expect the guest to pay for the dinner? Many guests will bring something but that is part of the culture but is not expected.
A lot of women are opting out of the dating scene and men wonder why. It is the attitude of many who are vulgar and angry and have this paranoia of how a woman is out to take advantage of them. Most men who claim a woman is trying to take such advantage tend to do the same to their mates: live off of them or just give so little in return.
Yeah you and MgMo should both hangout together. 2 of the biggest slimeballs I have ever seen from the female race. What a disgrace to your gender. You both shoudl be b^tch slapped.
Nice to see a gentleman still in this world.
Well said, Aussiebear. I absolutely agree.
If a man asked the woman on a date, he should pay. The same goes when a friend invites another friend out for a meal or an event. Manners state that the person who gave the invitation is expected to pay. If a woman is dumb enough to think she is the one courting a man, she would then pay due to being the person to do the asking.
Many men have thrown away common manners due to the feminist myth and women have set themselves up when they pay to be with a man. Being a gentleman is a thing of the past due to what women will tolerate. If a man, who has asked a woman on a date, takes the lady to an expensive place, he needs to be prepared to pay the bill. Taking someone out to a nice restaurant and then putting a cap on what can be ordered (like telling the woman how he can order a steak but she can only afford to pay for a bowl of soup) or presenting how the date is on her own is uncouth. There are many good places to eat without spending a fortune. If a man is really cheap, he can suggest a picnic where all he has to buy is bread and lunch meat.
Again, the “threat” of a man saying he can use a prostitute for sex should not make a woman feel that she indeed has to pay for the man’s company. Some of these men would be better off paying a prostitute and leaving women alone. Men only appreciate what they pay for in life. The woman who is willing to go Dutch on all dates and go for the “we must go half on every single thing” is the same woman who is stunned when the man drops her and is willing to pay for everything to be with a prettier or a younger lady.
A woman offering to pay after a relationship is established is not a bad thing but a sign of giving. It is up to the fellow to refuse or accept. Giving little gifts is a nice thing if the lady cannot afford the cost of the dates. However, giving gifts too soon is advised against because it states the women are apologising for their existence to a man and it shows insecurity. The same men who are cheap in the beginning of dating are the same men who will scream about supporting his own children in the event of a divorce and call the woman a “gold-digger” if she dares to say that $25 a week is not enough to take care of a child on her own.
You are really cracked. You obviously have it out for men and are probably scorned or something. You make all these generalizations about men- strip joints, football, etc. You’re a chauvinist pig, that is what you are. You’re extremely ignorant too. I hope you have a brother who gets totally taken advantage of by some woman and makes him pay for everything and then dumps him. So many women are either gold diggers or losers out there today they DON’T DESERVE GENTLEMEN. Why did many men stop acting like gentelemen? Because women stopped acting like ladies. The one thing I hate is acting like a genteleman only to find out a girl is a real jerk. Some women think they should be treated like princesses, like it’s a rare privilage for you to be out with them. Well, they can kiss my a$$!!!! Fortunately, I know many women who are decent people and they too feel like a first date should either be split or at least expect it to be split. It’s called equality. If I feel like paying for the whole date I still will, that is my choice. Of course a female chauvinist pig like you would never understand equality. And how the f^ck can you say a friend should pay for a friend? I’m having lunch with an old work pal (male) this Friday- I asked him since it’s been a long time that we have seen each other. You are seriously saying that I should pay for his meal?? Are you f^cked? NOBODY I know, man or woman, would ever think that!!! You really f^cking cracked!!!!!
There are ways to be a gentleman (or a lady for that matter) other than spending money on someone.
Locutus, if you claim I speak like a gold-digger, you foul language shows you have no class. Again, the gold-digger term is only thrown about by men like you to make a woman feel she should pay her own way during a date and throughout a relationship or marriage. If men did not spend their money on strippers, the clubs would not be in business and the parking lots would not be full of cars from all walks of life – Chevy trucks to Mercedes Benz. The same “generalised” statements you say I make are the same that come from you of how any woman is a gold-digger if she refuses to pay for a man. Many women are opting out of the dating scene.
“Many women are opting out of the dating scene.”
And men are avoiding long-term commitment as well, so quit boasting.
Reread my comments, you stupid crackhead whore. Where DO I EVER say that I make women pay? Making up stuff now? I said that a woman should at least make an offer to pay the tip or perhaps split the bill. I have never made a woman pay once in my life- but probably should have as a few of them were moocher and lazy f^cking losers. The ones that always asked to pay part of the bill, I refused any money from.
You’re so f^cking stupid with your comments about this strip club thing. Casino’s are JAMMED f^cking packed too, does that mean everyone is a gambler???? No way. You have the IQ of a f^cking sloth.
Why don’t you go smoke some crack in the trailer trash hangout that you come from? You have no clue how ordinary normal everyday people live.
Women are cheap. We all know this. Biology drives their need for men to provide for them. Most women want equality unless a man is involved.
Both parties agree to go out for a night then both parties pay their way. Period.
As a financially secure female – I totally agree. Much better to split :)
Men should pay for first few dates. After the third or forth date, the woman should atleast offer. If the man always pays and the woman doesn’t even offer to pay, it makes me feel being taken advantage of and I will make sure that my dates are not frequent. So all the ladies out there… if you like the guy and going on the forth + date, offer to take the tab, this will make the man feel appreciated… Most liklely he will refuse the offer, but just asking or taking money out to pay really makes the man good inside and you earn a lot of points. Just remember, dateing someone is to Give and not always Getting.
I always offer to pay, even on the first date. Although, I am disappointed if someone makes me pay on the first date. So cheap and unchivalrous.
But from then on, I’d expect to either alternate or spilt the bill.
I have come across men who just pay off the bill without giving you a chance to even chip in… I’d feel embarrassed about making a scene. In such situations I just accept the offer. Although I really have no problem paying after the first few dates!
I totally think that first dates should be expected to be split down the middle. If the date goes well for both of us then I would offer to cover the whole bill at the end of the date. I laugh at you women who relate being a ‘gentlemen’ with ‘paying a bill’. Yeah, well I realty being a ‘gold digger’ with not offering to pay part of the bill. You ladies on here don’;t realize that there are women out there who feel guys should pay for everything, all the time and are true losers. Times have changed. If you still feel old-fashioned then perhaps you can clean the house, vacuum the rugs, and do the laundry like a good old fashioned woman should. Don’t like that?? Well you can’t have things both ways. My sister even warned me not to let some of these scum bag women out there take advantage of me. She thinks women who don’t at least offer to pay part of the bill- (even if it’s just the tip) are pathetic losers.
Historically, I have always paid the full bill on every date and I’ve reached a point where I am pissed off for being so stupid. I have taken women out and spent $150-$200 every date and they do not even offer to pay. Guys, drop them like a heartbeat if they don’t even offer. You ladies on here kill me- many of you do NOT deserve gentlemen!!! Fools!!! Any girl who can’t get this out of her head is one to avoid.
I met a woman tonight that was not even supposed to be a date- we had just been chatting as friends and decided to meet. She is the one who suggested that we meet- nobody used the word date either. She asked me to meet at 4pm and chose the restaurant. She has a good job too. I totally expected to be meeting as friends and split the cost down the middle. Plus she is the one who decided where and when to meet. So we had drinks and dinner at a rather expensive place (her choosing) and the bill comes to $150.00 and guess what?? She makes no offer or anything to pay and I get stiffed with the bill. If I was gonna pay I would have decided when and where to go!!!!!!!!!! Ladies, you gotta realize that some of you may be respectable but there are women out there who totally are not!!!! I don’t even want to be friends with her anymore- not speaking to her again.
Learned my lesson. First meeting will only be for drinks from now on…don’t trust anyone! Bitches don’t deserve gentlemen!!!
There seems to be a lot of pent up anger in you locutus? This is a discussion and not a mockery. Every situation is different? My boyfriend pays for everything… dinner, movies, trips.. AND it does not mean I am mooching off of him? Realize that in situations like this… its probably because he’s making 100 times more than me? He understands that I am a student? But that does not mean I can’t do things in return.. like make him dinner, take care of things when he’s busy. This is not to say that we are trying to live in the 1920’s but the system works this way because it’s most natural when a man makes more than the female.. and the biological instinct of the female is to take care of his needs. To say that we are all gold-diggers because we make then men pay is ridiculous. You can’t treat every date like the women are out to get you and your wallet. ITS NOT FUN
And what about other situations where the woman makes more than the man, but yet the man still pays the entire bill????? What do you say about those women? Not sure why you seem to protect ALL women, I certainly don’t protect all men. Many treat women like crap! But there are also just as many women who treat men like crap. Now answer my question.
Those women should date men who make 25 percent more than they do. A woman should never date a man making less, the relationship will not work.
You are clearly misguided, because some actually are gold-diggers. Lots.
You should ALWAYS go splits on the first date! It should set a good presdence going forwards! I cant believe that anyone would insist on the other paying!
If I offered to pay for the first few dates or go Dutch, then guys would be pissed off at me and punch me, which I would normally to play it safe. It’s stupid how American guys insist on paying for dates and being solely chivalrous and not letting you be chivalrous instead and pay. Which is why American women and some foreign women are very doubtful about American men because American men still look at women as weak and helpless and become pissed off when women are sufficient and strong-minded. Let’s face it, American women prefer foreign men from countries in which women aren’t treated as weak and helpless but are treated like warriors and equals. That’s how relationships last long, no strict gender roles as to how men and women should behave.
Do you realize that “long lasting relationships” are almost non-existent today? And I wonder why? If you can remember back to when your grandfather was wooing your grandmother, I assure you no one calculated who was going to pay? And that is why people have longer lasting relationships back then.
Hahahaha….why don’t you go date a Japanese guy? See how the Japanese treat their women? They treat them pretty much like servants!!! I know a guy I used to work with who is from Japan and is 55 and is married to a woman who is 30 and attractive. She is treated like his servant!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, I think both parties should go into the date expecting to split the bill. If I had a good time with a girl and I think she is genuine and sincere then I might pay the whole thing or let her just pay the tip. There are many women out there who are losers and if I met one of them I certainly wouldn’t pay their bill!!!!
I know a woman who thinks it’s her God given right never to pay for a drink..ever!!!! She was out with 2 girlfriends and one of their guy friends and she expected the guy to pay for her drinks when everyone was splitting the bill!!!!!! Cheapscape!!!!!!! Losers like that never deserve to get paid for. Even the other women were pissed at her!
They both should pay randomly but if the guys earns more then he should pay most of the time. Times have changed and there is no harm even if the woman pays.
I met a woman once who said something quite profound, “Why would I want a guy who I’m interested in to go broke taking me out?” So, I started dating her. Let me say that I don’t mind paying for the first couple of dates, but just like women have things that they give guys kudos for, some guys have similar things they look for. If a woman even offers to pay for something, I look at it as if she cares about me enough to not take me for granted and use me. The bottom like is that everyone has bills to pay. As an adult, nothing comes free. I would feel ridiculous if a guy friend of my went out with me every time and always picked up the bill. I find that woman seem to feel entitled to receive gifts, money, and have things pid for them just because they are women.
Some women (not all) have some nebulous “old fashioned” belief that they hide behind. And they expect men to behave like gentlemen. If you want to follow this to its natural conclusion, then the woman should act like a lady and old fashioned. She should probably be living at home until married, be a virgin, act demure, dress in a lady like fashion, know how to cook, etc. Obviously, that is not realistic. And if I were a woman, it would seem like a great deal to get things paid for you all the time. Some woman even go out with guys just to get fed. I have a cousin who “dated” a woman who made 1.5 times his income (he was around six figures) and she insisted on him paying for everything (ordered cosmopolitans at dinner, etc.), but to his chagrin, he found out later that she didn’t technically consider them dating. This is a woman who would physically move out of the way for him to pay for things.
I met a woman once who had these “old fashioned” values (wanted guys to pay for things, open doors, etc.). I asked her what she would be doing that was old fashioned. She couldn’t think of anything. I then asked her about cooking if they were married. She thought about it and then said that she shouldn’t be expected to do it everyday. I asked her if she expected the guy to always pay for things, and always open her doors, and always take out the garbage if they were married. She said. “yes!” But anything I mentioned that was traditional or old fashioned for the woman would require that she no have to do it all the time or that it would have to be split between her and the man. It’s really just a cash cow carried over from fairy tales. I’m not interested in dating a princess or a queen. I’m not interested in being treated like a king. I just want to meet an adult, responsible woman, who demonstrates that they care about me and my welfare as much as I care about theirs. By the way, I I mention “adult”, because I ran across a woman (a lawyer by the way) who thought it was understandable if a woman keyed a guys car if it was a tough breakup or he cheated on her. She felt this was okay because women were emotional.
I think whoever invites should pay. If a guy invited me on a date, I would expect him to pay for everything. I would probably offer, to be polite, but I would be very upset if he took me up on the offer, would consider him cheap, and would never see him again.
If I invited a guy on a date, which I have done several times, I would expect to pay for everything. Usually, the guy will offer, in fact some of them really expect to pay, but I insist because I was the one who invited.
Since ususally, guys are the ones who invite, then yes, they should pay. For the first date, and the second, and probably the third. After that, the woman should definately start inviting him out too, whereby she would pay. When I say that I expect a guy to pay on the first few dates, I don’t necessarily mean that he should take me to high end restaurants every time. There are lots of cheap or even free things to do that are fun. The important thing is that if he invites, he pays. This shows that he is responsible and doesn’t expect someone else to pick up the tab after a date he initiated. That would be very immature.
“I think whoever invites should pay. If a guy invited me on a date, I would expect him to pay for everything. I would probably offer, to be polite, but I would be very upset if he took me up on the offer, would consider him cheap, and would never see him again.”
You seem to say that as though it’s a reasonable, mature approach or even a foregone conclusion, but it seems like a mind game to me.
I guess we speak from different perspectives. It’s common for me to take women to my favorite restaurant which is always is a great date spot. I think if the womnen doesn’t even offer to pay part or even pay the tip then I think pretty poorly of her and she is lucky is she gets a second date. I TOTALLY disagree with you about the 2nd and third dates. You’re out of your mind. Just as you view the guy as being cheap, what do you think the guy would view the girl as if she never even offered to pay a dime? She’s a moocher or a freerider. Screw that I’d dump her a$$!!! I’ve taked women out to eat before, paid the $150 bill (including tip). Then went elsewhere for drinks and still I had to pick up the ENTIRE tab for drinks. When she didn’t even offer to split the drink bill I thought that was pretty petty and low. And these drinks were at an expensive martini bar and the bill cam to almost $50!!! So that was a $200 night for me with not even an offer to pay a tip somewhere. Think she got a second date?? Nope.
I can’t believe you would expect a guy to pay EVRYTHING even on the 2nd and 3rd dates. There would neevr be 2nd and 3rd dates if that happened in my book, trust me. I’m not a rich guy either. And some of these girls made as much or more money as me.
My sister always emplores me…”Don’t let women mooch off of you like a fool. If they are like that then screw them!!”. She tells me they shoudl at least offer to pay and if not then she thinks they are moochers. I’ll follow her advice!!! Typically I’m a nice guy and I never say anything even when I’m mad.
Hellooooo….she is giving YOU THE CHANCE to go out with her. YOU asked her out. Your goal is to get in her pants not go out just as friends, right?. So why should she invest in your goal? You took her to your favorite expensive restaurant. Who’s idea was it to go to the expensive martini bar? Sounds to me you were trying to show off and make yourself look good but then expected her to pay half the bill..LOL. If you want a woman to pay half then it should only be in a friends only level where it is understood before getting together. Better yet in group environment so there is not misunderstandings. If you want intimacy with a woman yes it up to you treat her right and convince you are the right person for her and until both parties are committed into a relationship where shared responsibilites occur. Again, she is giving you the chance and privilige for you to get to know her. Like Janie said there are many date options that don’t involve money. If you don’t want to make the effort to properly treat a quality woman then maybe you should check out craigs list where you don’t have to worry about being a gentleman.
There are nice girls out there that are not moochers and would be happy getting together for a low key date without all the bells and whistles. Maybe you should look at the type of women you are picking?
AMAZED, I agree with you here. If the woman did not expect to pay at all and she was taken out on some extravagant date, I don’t see how she is suddenly liable for a $30+ tip or $14 martinis, when it wasn’t her choice to go to either place. I think you might be better off LOCUTUS if you DID go to cheaper places if it ends up being this big of a problem.
Also, I know this isn’t some bidding war; I find that you BOTH added to the discussion. Even if there was some universal source for etiquette, we wouldn’t all agree. So, this is my opinion and it’s as valuable as everyone’s here.
The real problem is that no one knows what to expect. Most of us have opinions- strong ones- and THAT’s what ends up being a barrier between us and a good time. Maybe we should really learn to be flexible, how to communicate our opinions, and maybe not go so crazy trying to impress people with money we don’t want to spend. What do you all think?
I am not really amazed at this man’s post of how a woman is “lucky” to go out with him if she offers to pay on a date which he asked of her. A lot of men feel that a woman is “lucky” to accept the crumbs of kindness from them. Hopefully, most of these women will NOT offer to pay for this cheapskate with the hopes of being “lucky” enough for his company once again. A lot of today’s males would not have survived a society of the past where a man was judged by the woman’s parents if he was worthy of marriage: meaning he had a profession in which to support a wife and possibly children.
Yeah, and I wonder how older generations of male parents would judge many females today….rotten gold digging, fake, stuck up, whores!!! LOL!!!!! I don’t really agree with my statement, but it’s far more true today than years ago. You want to make comparison’s Marylin? Take it both ways. Your mind is cracked…probably from all the crack you smoke like the trailer trash wench that you are.
So men should just shut up and be grateful that a woman is giving them a chance to “get in her pants”? I hope that not what you’re really saying, because there are some major problems with it. First of all, it reduces women to sexual objects. Secondly, it’s predicated on the myth that the only thing any man wants from a woman is sex. Thirdly, it implies that the proper way for a man to obtain sexual favors from a woman is by spending money on her, which places the relationship squarely on the footing of that between a prostitute and a customer. That’s fine if that’s what you’re looking for, but to frame dating in general that way is just ridiculous.
I have come to the conclusion that you Locustus is crazy. Just for a tip that she didn’t pay for.. you’re going to deminish her as being a moocher? I would not offer to pay OUT OF RESPECT for the guy who ask me out. YES it’s respect because it shows curtesy and compassion when you do not put money in? The thought is that the lady would get you next time ? I remember never paying but would do things to surprise them like plan a picnic and get dinner without them knowing so they do not pay for it. Saves the awkward moment so that guy does not feel obligated to pay. You really have no idea about the dating world.
You sound like a really dumb broad. Go back and reread all of my posts. They are directed at my personal experiences and certian women on this board who feel it’s their God given right to be bought everything. They think they are princesses. Did I direct any of my comments at your situation? My comments are not biased against women nor am I angry at women. In fact, I find that some of my biggest supporters are women. Women who know how certain types of women act. Just read some of the messages on this board. I am a person of equality. I treat women with equal respect and expect to be treated the same. There are plenty of women I know that totally understand dating should be split or a woman should at least offer to pay part of the bill. Some women on this board have mentioned guys that have asked them out and then those guys stiffed them with the bill or expected them to pay. Those guys are losers just in the same way women who think they are princesses are losers. No difference.
As long as a woman always at least offers to pay then I have respect for her. Rarely have I even accepted a tip from them. What the hell makes you think it’s rude for a woman to offer to pay? Are you friggin kidding me? You’re a joke. You have it manifested into your head and i think you have the princess sydrome. Sounds like your a young attractive girl who is dating a guy at least 5 years older, maybe 10 or more and he buys you everything so he can keep a young sexy thing around. i don’t stand for any of that BS. I don’t care how attractive you are. The guy you are dating is either a dope or he just doesn’t mind buying your love. Tell me something….if this guy were to go broke tomorrow…lot his job, or made a bad investment, or went bankrupt, or got sued and he was broke and you had to start paying for at least half of things or even more…would you stay with this guy????
You gotta be kidding me Amazed! You have to be a woman who is out of touch. You sound incredibly chauvinistic! I am ‘privileged’ to go out with these women? Are you nuts? Many women out there today are A$$holes just as many men are. Everyone is equal and certainly nobody is privileged! I always used to think men were the sole losers and women got mistreated until I found out how dispicable a lot of women are. Live and learn! I don’t treat anyone as if they are privileged until they EARN that distinction. You really are bonkers. And this may come as a shock to ya, but many girls who look like the sweetest, nicest, people are the WORST ones out there. Can never judge a book by it’s cover. Listen to how you talk- “She should never invest in my goal”? You sound really whacked. A date is a friggin date. It’s just as much to see if I like her as it is to see if she likes me. I have NEVER tried to get into a woman’s pants on the first date especially if I like her. Sex messes things up right away. Although I have had women take their clothes off on me even ones I wasn’t that attracted to. Oh, yeah women are no different than men. You should really wake the hell up with your archaic views on people today- you’re really clueless and are probably not in the active dating pool, but yet commenting on it.
I’m not sure where you get off with your comments either. Did I EVER complain about not having sex with the girl in my post above? Where the hell did that come into play? Now if you want to generalize me into some BS category then right away you are wrong for doing that and your credibility is shot. I am strictly talking about paying for a date. I did not expect the girl to split the whole bill, but she could have offered to pay the tip- especially when the bill is that high. It’s the courteous thing to do. Anway, you really need to get with the current reality out there or else refrain from making comments since obviously you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
When my girlfriend and I eat out, I always take the bill and pay it without saying anything. She gestured to pay the bill during one of our earlier dates but I stopped her saying, “If you really want to pay for our meal, don’t say anything. Just take the bill and pay it without discussion like I do.” She’s never paid the bill.
This isn’t the old days where women had no money. If we are both making money and both seeking a relationship why should it cost you 0 and me double? What would your opinion be on this if i stated it is polite for the woman to pay for the dates? You would probably laugh in my face. Why should you expect my opinion on it to be different?
Also, i don’t want you to go out with me because you like free food and drinks. Sadly a lot of women not that interested will go out once more or many more times just because its free. I want a woman to go out again because she likes me. Not because she likes free sushi and beer.
Just wanna say nowadays also there are men who are gold diggers as well and expect women to pay all bills, just because they are younger and lower income. And the older one that try to ask innocent(stupid in love) women who have rich parents to get money from them to pay their bills(credit)
Just in case you guys never heard about it before. It’s harsh.
I like the way of share if no intimacy but for date guys should offer first if girls don’t help. Then later you guys are not happy then just no more next times with that girls.
I have dropped 8.5 GRAND on this girl in only under 6 months. One day I asked her to pay for her 0.99CENT burger at this place we stopped in on . . . and she turns to me in public and starts SCREAMING at me how UNFAIR it was that she had to pay $1.05!!!!
I put a roof over this girls head and her kids too!
Dumped her, got tired of being broke, NEVER PAYING FOR A GIRL AGAIN.
Why can’t a girl pay for a guy on a date? oh right because it’s taboo? Why should us guys have to BUY affaction and love? no I don’t want pussy either.
Why would you ask that girl to pay for a $.99 burger considering that you dumped thousands of dollars on her before?
Sorry about your bad experience. It makes me mad when I hear women that behave badly because they give other women a bad name. Then we have guys such as yourself who got burned and now every other woman that follows will have to pay the consequences.
In your specific case I think you made a mistake dumping so much money on a woman right off the bat. Now you feel used and rightfully so. Just dont make the same mistake again but to say that you will never pay for a woman will eliminate your chances of meeting a quality woman.
“..to say that you will never pay for a woman will eliminate your chances of meeting a quality woman.”
Why? This seems to imply that a woman who pays her own way isn’t a quality woman.
I am a woman and I feel like a dumbass time and time again because I always reach for my wallet and end up paying my share. Went to lunch with a guy the other day. It wasnt a date as he contacted me and told me that he is going for lunch to a certain restaurant and told me to come over if I’m around. So I guess it was like a friendly thing but he acts like he likes my company because he invites me to go places with him.
Even if it was just a lunch between friends it would have been nice if he didn’t accept my payment to go Dutch and paid the damn $10 for my meal. Pathetic. That must be why hes still single in his early 30’s.
That’s why I’m so discouraged to even go out with guys. I just don’t go out looking for it and I prefer to be single to not deal with losers. I rather spend that time investing in myself or like someone else said here before, I’d rather go out with friends who care about me. I am young, bright, educated, kind hearted and I am told that I’m pretty. I am worth better treatment because I have a lot to offer. This is so sad.
Why on Earth should he pay if you’re just friends? Aren’t you the one who’s pathetic?
Are you serious? He should have paid for two reasons: 1. Because it would have been a nice thing to do 2. Because he contacted me about lunch, not the other way around. Pathetic because it was only $10.
“Because it would be the nice thing to do” the typical “I can’t think of any better excuses” excuse.
I could have sworn that I answered your first question giving two reasons why the guy should have paid. Yes, it would have been nice for a guy to pay for my lunch that he suggested himself. It was understood that we would hang out again after that; in which case I would have picked up the tab next time. Whatever happened with just pure kindness? It seems as though there is always something for something.
You are the type of guy that discouraged me from dating. You just aren’t a nice guy so it seems.
Nope, I’m not a “nice guy”, because those are clingy and obsessive.
I live in the north of the UK, we don’t have those crappy gender roles here.
(By the way I’m not a “bad boy” either, I’m just a normal guy)
A guy that is confident in himself will not be afraid to be a “nice guy”. A strong but kind man will end up with a sincere woman.
It so happens that I am European. I have a sister who lives in London. Europeans do believe in the same things Americans believe when it comes to human relations. I’ve seen my sister pick up the tab for her friends and I’ve seen her British friends do the same for her and her family. And men do pay for women in the UK as well. It’s not gender roles. It’s human nature. It doesn’t matter what century it is; some things stay the same. Women will always feel special when a man pays because it demonstrates that he invests in her. A man paying is a good start. This feeling of investment and respect is also present when friends pay for each other. Another thing that will never change is the fact that men like to do the chasing; they loose respect for a woman who chases them. It kills the thrill of the chase for them. Plus, when you get something for free you tend not to respect it. It’s human nature.
Guys that think like you are just cheap and not worth a quality woman’s time; even if it’s just friendship.
LOL you are so wrong!
First, I said the north of the UK, I didn’t say it was like that in the whole of the UK.
I’ve seen females asking males out all the time over here, and there has been no problem with it.
What is your definition of a “quality woman”? To me, the fact that she expects me to do all this crap would be enough to make her not be a quality woman. Though I guess a lot of people mistake someone who has a good appearance with someone who is good quality.
Well no, it’s demonstrably not human nature but yes, obviously traditions tend to stay the same. That’s why they’re called traditions. Is that enough? Aren’t we’re supposed to be smarter than that? Doing things because they are fair, just, right and/or make sense and not simply because they’ve been done that way for a long time?
Those human characteristics which I described are universal; unless it is some place where women aren’t even allowed to drive a car or have to walk behind men, I suppose.
You mentioned a woman who expects to be paid for. No one should ever expect anything. When a man pays a woman should be appreciative. If she is not then you don’t see her again, period.
A quality woman, in the context of paying at a restaurant, is one who respects herself and knows that when a man pays for her then he is making the best investment he ever made. At the same time, she is not some trailer trash who is just looking for a free meal and doesn’t have the common sense and good raising to show appreciation when something is given to her and she’s treated well. In fact, it shocks me to read that some women are only interested in a free ride. A quality woman doesn’t have to look for a free ride because she is independent and self sufficient. Again, she should still be wined and dined on a first few dates.
Heh! I don’t think this is going to be the way to show you care any longer, what with all the angry guys complaining. Did you ever give a thought that maybe not everyone is old-fashioned?
You are saying all these things because you met a few bad apples. But when you meet a woman that you are into then you will pay for the first few dates guaranteed. You will because you will want to do it and you will do it gladly; if you are really interested in her. Old fashioned or not I have no doubt you will do it. If you don’t then you fall into the category with the guys who are just losers.
LOL no! I wouldn’t sacrifice my equality for someone I had just newly met, and I have a life outside of relationships. You act like you know me, which you don’t. Funny thing is that most females I talk to on this matter agree with me, and think the guys who insist on paying are losers who have no self respect.
Ad hominem argument. You’re dismissing his arguments based on an assumption about his dating history instead of directly rebutting them.
I don’t act like I know you. I read relationship books written by both, men and women so I’m speaking from what I’ve learned about human nature. Ofcourse there are men and women such as you and your female friends, whatever floats your boat I guess. Personally I wouldn’t even want to be your friend if you wouldn’t dare to pay stupid $10 for my sandwich because that would violate “equality”.
If I go out to lunch with a guy friend, I wouldn’t pay for him, just to me nice. We split the bill. Same with a woman friend. We split the bill. Only if you look like you might give it up would I even consider paying. Why should I open my wallet if you won’t open your legs?
Don, WOW…that’s all i am going to say to a guy like you.
MagiMoo, you’ve been saying the same thing from the perspective of someone who is receiving the monetary benefits. Why does it shock you to hear it from the opposite perspective?
Dekker451, it shocks me because I believe that a man should be a gentleman despite of being taken advantage of in the past. I am a good girl so it sucks that I have to pay the price for all the women out there with no class. I deserve to be treated well because I am a real and sincere person. And I make a great friend even if the date doesn’t result in more down the road.
This is my dilemma. I have been asked out on two dates by a man I’m really into. He owns his own business and is pretty well off. He paid both times. I on the other hand am a waitress and barely make enough money to support myself. I feel like I should at least offer to buy next time or at least offer tio go dutch but I don’t have the money to. I don’t even feel right going out with him because of this. I thought maybe I could invite him over and make dinner for him but not sure he would like having grilledcheese and ramens, about all I can afford. I’m single for the first time in 12 years. I’m probably gonna be single forever now. He doesn’t know I’m so poor, and kinda worried about what he’s going to think. Any advice on what to do?
When you are ready to sleep with him you should make him dinner. You can set the mood you want and keep the cost down to under $20. You should be able to give up some wasteful purchase to save $20.
You can buy 2 pounds of chicken breast for about $5.
You can get as fancy as you want on the sauce, or buy some BBQ sauce for $4.
Bottle of wine $8.
Making food for someone is very sexy and let’s them know you really like them. If you’re a decent cook, he’ll be impressed and like being taken care of. Most people love a home cooked meal, so if you can afford to do this every 4 or 5 dates it will be an equitable arrangement. And you will win him over.
A very good idea! I still worry about inviting him to my “modest” abode. His place is gorgeous. If we keep seeing each other (hope!) it’s inevitable. Any idea how to remodel for 20 bucks? Lol I’m kidding, if he’s a truly nice guy he won’t judge right? Maybethe next time I could cook at his place? Would it be rude to ask?. Uugh, I hate worrying over this.
“if he’s a truly nice guy he won’t judge right?”
That’s pretty much it. If he’s the kind of person to look down on you based on your income then he’s not worth your time and it’s better to find that out sooner rather than later.
im so tired of how males are these days–most men..basically have given their life savings and still are– to some gold digging psychopath…who is milking them for every penny they have…these pathetic stupid lowly men are thrilled to be supporting their ‘psycho nutso crazy ex gf/wife’ whoever…also because shes the ‘mother of their children’ and they want their child to ‘have a good life’ etc.. so he gave them the house, the car, the blah blah… in the mean time…this whackjob is out trying to date other women, with whom he has no interest in giving anything to but more or less tryign to take from them…its pathetic and crazy… so he’s like well psycho ex robbed me broke so im going to use ‘every other female now and screw them over’… or try to get money off them, not pay for them, use them etc…or just treat them like crap. these men are seriously crazy/sick and they are EVERYWHERE… they seem to adore giving lots of money to crazy gold digging women while using and abusing good ones….
i went on a date recently…it was implied the guy would pay–usually the guy does pay. If I go out with someone many many times…we’re not really ‘dating’ but he takes me out or we just go out and we’ve been going out a lot or he’s having problems, then i’ll pay some portion or my portion etc…it just depends. Usually a first or few first dates the guy pays and some guys I go out with…they just want company to go out to dinner or a movie or something and they pay. This guy, however…I made it a note to go to a place where they had alcohol b/c he insisted he wanted alcohol. We met online and he mentioned dinner or a movie. He agreed to go to dinner…when we got to the restaurant…he said he didnt eat after 7-8pm…and said he was just getting a beer but told me I could “get anything I wanted from the menu” and in the way of stating he was going to be paying for it…from then on and the way he was acting I was suspicious he may not pay or something might happen…the fact that he claimed he didnt eat after 8 yet he didn’t say taht on the phone and seemed ok with going to dinner. It wasn’t an expensive restaurant and was just average with any standard denny’s type place.
By saying what he said about getting whatever I wanted, basically was saying he was going to pay for my meal of course… in the middle of the meal he walked off several times for unknown reasons and he also commented on how much food came out– not my fault that one entree had a ton of food in it and also wasnt very expensive…I offered him my food several times and he declined. By the end of the meal, he secretly asked the waiter for the check..saying “can you bring the check”..ie to “him” of course…not to us…or to me…it wasn’t separate checks…however, when he got the check, he stated “whoa” like he was surprised and not happy with it…he ordered 2-3 beers and my meal cost like 14.00…the total came to 29.00…that’s pretty cheap and im not sure what he was ‘whoaing’ about and it made no sense…it almost seemed staged and not really how he felt…as if he wanted to make me feel uncomfortable or was playing a game or messing around…of course he knew the bill was going to be over 20.00 but not much over…he wasn’t stupid he was in his 30’s…but did seem like the type of scumbag that might screw someone over suddenly. Based on that of course I got worried and thought…hmm, it seems like he’s going to try to do something or is upset over the bill. Never once did he mention about splitting it and from the beginning he made it clear he was going to pay. I think he was just wanting to screw me over and break my balls type deal…as he was looking at the bill then he put it down and put his wallet away–maybe in an attempt to make me get worried…which some guys do sometimes just to mess with you…not sure why…then he grabbed some money and put it with the bill and I thought…ok he paid…?
We talked a little more…and then towards the end of the time, he casually mentioned…well i paid for my beer, and put in some money, so you can pay the rest of the balance–err excuse me? pay the rest of the balance? you told me i could get anything I wanted and now you want me to pay?? no freaking way….ive been on MANY dates in my life– many…and this guy was deceptive, misleading, and was doing all this intentionally of cousre…to mislead and mess with me. If he wasn’t even interested in the date, why do all this..maybe he just wanted to get a ‘free date’ like a means of saying ok let’s go to dinner and in the end i’ll just front her with her portion after making her think im going to pay– just awful of course. I said well this was adate and I was assuming you were going to pay? he said “did i say I was going to pay”? i said you told me I could get anything off the menu i wanted??? I really had no money on me but would have gone outside to get it…however, I was upset at this jerk’s behavior and what he was doing…or why…I said i had no money on me and i’d pay him back (yeah right had no intention of paying him back why– because he was basically treating me lower than crap and trying to really screw me over)…
I had one experience once where a guy walked out on me making me pay the entire bill long ago…and it was a horrid ordeal..the guy intentionally did it to me..he ordered the most expensive thing, b/c he paid for our first date and I guess he didnt get laid..then later begged me to go to dinner again..finally when I said yes he did that to me…he was a scumbag, con-artist and terrible persno then lied later and claimed he left 20.00 on the table, when he didnt’ but thats another story…
so in this case… I didn’t know what to do except I did what I knew– whoever is left last has to pay the bill and I didn’t want this jerk to get away with what he was trying to do with me– lie mislead then stiff and embarrass me so I just grabbed my things and walked out first… he came close behind I assume stiffing the waiter…which was horrible… to me it was his tab…for sure…he made it very clear he was going to pay on two different occasions…and he had no place just saying well now you have to pay just because this was my plan to get a ‘free date’ so i can mislead you… and he very well deserved it…. it’s one thing had he not said “you can get whatever you want” and then even asking the waiter for the bill but at the last minute deciding he was going to make the other person pay for it….that’s just wrong… had he not said that I would have asked him…so are you going to pay or how is this going to work…but I think that was his game…to make me think he was going to pay–on several occasions then totally make it seem different otherwise… there are a lot of tricks guys use to do this..ie to screw people over… im not sayin a guy always has to pay–but in this case…he made it clear he was going to pay and likes to mislead people and thats not ok….he was a scumbag for sure…. he was a creep who talked about how his ex was a gold digger and taking him for everything he had and how all she wants is money…and he gives it to her…yet he tries to take women out on dates, and misleads them and tries to get them to pay their ‘portion’ at the last minute–sick awful person but this is a lot of what u find in males these days– tehse sick evil freaks who are glad to pay lots of money to a psycho cold b*tch and then go online to screw other women over…and take their anger out on them…disturbed people out there….
ive known and met MANY men who are like this…they talk about how their psycho ex stole their condo, their house, took this and that…she has ‘everything’…he pays them child support and pays them this much money per month extra–these same men are like “well im looking for a girlfriend” and what they are looknig for in that girlfrend is someone who THEY can get money off of–its horrible… one guy I spoke to was a talent agent and he was talking about wanting to ‘move in with me’ and I can pay the rent–huh? and how his ex took his condo then sold it for 5.00… this date who screwed me over talked about how his ex is a psychopath and won’t let him do this or that, how he has to pay her x amount of money or she threatens him… how she’s his ‘ex’ yet it seems they are still for sure together or dating… other men ive spoken to gave their ex ‘everything’ just because …she has the child… and now they want a ‘girlfriend’ again someone they can USE…and they have no intention of giving her anything and more or less just trying to get money or something off her….this is how most guys are these days–damaged with baggage trying to use women for the psycho women that use them and the psycho women who they give lots of money to…all the time willingly even if they don’t have to legally they are still giving these women money while trying to stiff and screw over all other women out there…
Jenn, seems like you are mostly pisses st guys with baggage who can’t give you a free ride. You mentioned over and over about how he wanted a free date but I guess what you are really saying is YOU wanted a free date and were pissed he made you pay for your food. You thought he was going to pay for you and you were wrong. Seal with it. If you want free dates make it clear he is paying or be prepared to pay for yourself.
I also find it hard to believe all these guys want you to pay for their rent and everything else. They probably want you to contribute and you should. Sure there are some low life men out there who want to be supported but there are sooooo many more low life lazy women who feel entitled and want everything while contributing nothing.
That’s what I get for replying on my cell. Im sure you can figure out the typos.
youre kidding me robert…i wanted the ‘free date’…no he did..he deceived me and lied to me…he wanted to go out with someone and pretend he was going to pay in order to go out to dinner or a bar…obviously…yes im hoping the guy will pay for my meal…but if he insists on it from the beginning…then backs out he’s lying/misleading…I generally expect a guy to pay…especially if he’s the one who asked out and suggested the type of place to go…so no you’re comlpetely wrong.. if you think it’s ok for a guy to make a girl think eh’s paying and deceive, then you have some issues…it’s one thing had he not done that its another story but that’s what he did and yes when I go on a date i do expect the guy to pay…it doesnt always happen but its usually talkde about beforehand…not lies and deception…what this guy did was absurd and wrong and if u defend it bc/ youre male and women want ‘free rides’…again thats absurd…
robert u sound liek scum yourself..u have a hard time believing the guy wanted to ‘live off me rent free’…do you even know me or my situation to assert im lying…you’re pathetic….and my ex wanted to live off me rent free—many men do and many men do to women and try to use them..its called ‘life’….you sound like one of those jerk men with a chip on his shoulder who probably got used by some gold digger…just like what im talking about and again is now taking it out on women who ARENT gold diggers…so you can vent your frustration somewhere…it’s so typical it’s all you men do…give all your money to a scummy using lying female then take it out on nice women…so sick of it…take your nonsense somewhere else…u dont know anyone here or their lives and if u dont think there are men who use women for money, expenses rent etc…you have no concept of anything or have A LOT to learn and are very ignorant…u men who get used by gold diggers..its your choice…dont take it out on other women just because your lack of judgment caused u to get used by a user/liar…its really pathetic and messed up
Ok, so Robert generalized about you and maybe he does have a chip on his shoulder. But what about you? You said “it’s so typical it’s all you men do”, are you kidding me? You’re just as much a loser as you claim Robert to be. When you say that you are referring to me also, screw you!!! I think you have issues with men….you think they are all losers. Maybe you’re the scumbag? You think I give a dime to women who are lazy and think they are owed everything? I cancelled a recent date with a sexy looking woman when I realized she had the princess syndrome and starting telling about our date- time, place, me buying her dinner..even before I made any plans. I ended up telling her I was not interested. I’m not a cheap guy, but when a girl thinks she is owed everything I don;t want to spend a single penny on her.
And the other point Robert wa trying to make is that YOU expect “free” dates…as in you expect not to pay unless the guy says somethign upfront. You should ALWAYS go into a date expecting to pay half or at least pay the tip and NEVER assume it’s free. Yeah, in the example you wrote about the guy was a loser, but why is it ok for you to expect the date to be free? Maybe other guys who paid for yo uwere expecting you to at least offer to pay and you didn’t and they think YOU are the one that is a loser. Ever consider that perspective?
Yes she really does have some issues. She still doesn’t get the whole thing where she got mad about the guy wanting a free date when she keeps saying “Yes I expect a guy to pay.” SHE wants free dates. Its a mutual thing, you both want to spend your life with another person. You aren’t doing him a favor by going out with him.
Ok, you thought he was going to pay and he didn’t. Maybe he only lead you on in your mind, and didn’t think he was in his. Maybe he lead you on on purpose (But you just thinking he lead you on is more likely). But guess what? If this is a requirement to go out with you, then you tell the guy strait out hes paying, or if he acts like he is then you can ask. But don’t assume then call him a scumbag because he went against your assumption.
Also, I said I doubt that every guy you meet wants you to pay his bills. You make it sound like thats all you can find right now, rather than just giving a rant of 1 or 2 experiences which is easily plausible. Get over yourself, get over your hate for all guys based on a few, and most importantly, expect to pay your own way but be happy if you don’t have to. Don’t expect the opposite and be pissed when you don’t have to.
Just FYI, I do pay for almost everything when I am out with a woman even if shes just a friend because I don’t like to go out and party, don’t waste my money, and am not in debt to a woman, and make a good amount. But do I think this should be expected? No. Should a woman expect to pay for herself whenever she goes out on a date unless specified otherwise? Of course. Why should you not have to pay? “The man should pay” is not a reason. Do you think it would be fair if men said, “Well women work now, they should be expected to pay for all dates since we did for so long.” I bet you would say no, that is not fair. They should at least pay for them self if anything. Bottom line, it is unfair.
Also, from your posts the people who seem like the real scumbags are the women ruining these men’s lives that you meet. The law can often favor them so these threats can be very real. Sometimes its easier to just give the woman something rather than dragging you through court, costing you court bills and missing work because you are the only one who actually works and then she gets that stuff anyway. You know in California a woman can get spousal support after a divorce? This is extra, on top of child support. You can make a guy who makes $4000 a month give you $1600-$2000 for just 1 child and yourself. You can continue to collect spousal support on top of child support even if you are living with a new man and have a job of your own. It only ends after you marry this new man. So basically you can make the guy pay for you to live with another man. Totally unfair, which is why when my mom divorced my dad she waived this “right” of hers because unlike you she doesn’t think women should get special treatment and knew this law was stupid.
Unlike you, these things do not come from experiences which left me bitter and biased on views. I have not had bad experiences with women (yet). You don’t want men to have a free ride off you, and you should not expect a free ride off them. Stop with the double standards. You make women look bad.
I truly believe that there should be a coutrshp process. women do like the feeln of security that comes with a man being a “-protector” and actually caring enough to take her to dinner to make her feel special. Once it settles into a relationship, then i feel it should be more liberal, but I personally am not attractive to cheap unchvalrous men. I recently went out with one who stood 5 feet away when the bill came. I paid it but wil never see him again. I also went out with a guy who was very generous and we went on a very interesting and probably expensive evening. he did pay but mentioned the prices several timesand asked me how much to tip on X amount of a bill- as if he resented it- mever saw him again. theres got to be a balance, and some respect. If a guy epect you to drve far for a first or second date or pay dutch, RUN! It will only go downhill from there as the first few dates they are showng you the very best theyve got! ladies, who has time for this, wouldnt it be more fun to go out with freinds?? If im paying for my own dinner and the guy is going to try to kiss me and grope me after, i find that dsgcusting and an insult. id rather be with people who care about me! The lines are very blurred on this topic but i dont care what year it is, if a guy cares about you he will respect you, bottom line.
In an ideal world what you say might work just fine. The only problem is the world is FAR from ideal!!! People treat each other horrendously awful these days. They are rude, inconsiderate, and don’t even think it’s a big deal to drop you like a deck of cards for no reason and with no communication.
Makes you lose all respect for men/women out there. It’s so bad that I don’t believe or respect what anyone tells me- because I’ve had it change 180 degrees in 3 days for no reason at all and it had happened NUMEROUS times with people who appeared to be respectful, kind, and family types. I now judge people by their actions and not words. Maybe it has to do with the way many young people today were brought up, who knows?
Dating is absolutely horrible today- even worse than it was just 5 years ago, let alone 15 years ago. I feel sorry for the decent men and women who are true to their word and respectful people that get caught up in the BS. I always say, “I hope the a$$holes end up meeting the a$$holes”. They deserve each other.
When you finally do meet someone who has proven themself then I tend to treat them like gold.
In response to Monca, since it’s clear the guy has to spend a certain amount to be able to “grope or kiss” your, how much does he have to spend on you, over how many dates to get you into bed, you whore.
The fact of the matter is a guy could spend $1,000 on you and probably still get no sex.
When a woman didn’t work it was incumbant for a man to pay. And in a one salary household, it was accepted he was offering to support her. But in this age of women’s equality, where most of you earn as much as I do, why is it I always have to pay and you never do?
Really, you women are so materialistic, and so self important, and have such a sense of entitlement that I’d rather take the $200 I’d end up spending to take you to a nice dinner and date and just get a much cuter prostitute to come home with me and have sex. And the best part is I don’t have to spend hours listening to your inane conversation.
It seems that some people have forgotten what year this is, so let me remind you: 2011. If you ever forget again, consult your calendar.
This being 2011, these gender roles are absolutely stupid and should be abolished. I consider still believing in these things, a form of social BRAINWASHING!
As for the first date, “the one who asks pays” doesn’t work, because there are many women who just hang around waiting for the man to do the asking out, even if she’s the one with the initial and most interest. Paying for the first date is a way to making an impression. If both are already equally interested in each other, it should be split, but if its one trying to impress the other, then that one should pay, regardless of gender.
Oh and, people should stop trying to justify it with “its the gentleman thing to do”, how does that change the fact that it is a harmful gender role?
Luckily though, I’m 18, I live in a generation where things are more equal.
As for the guys who always insist on paying, they do this because they are BRAINWASHED by their parents, the media and society into doing so, but because they want to. Some people say its because they want to. Really? Try asking yourself this: If guys were never taught the “rule”, do you still think they would automatically insist on paying?
My issue with guys always paying for the date is that it creates a bad precedent. Basically, you either pay the bill and are a gentleman, or you don’t pay the bill and are a cheap, selfish individual. You’re stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I’m a chemist. I earn a decent living. I don’t have any problem footing the bill, it’s just that I want a woman to be interested in me. If I’m footing the entire bill, it makes me feel like I want to be on that date far more than she does. I mean, you could argue that her being there in the first place shows that she’s interested. Then again, if I at least get along with a woman, I would not turn down a free meal and movie if she offered to take me out. See what I mean?
If a man wants a woman to pay, he is going to have to lower his standards. A younger and prettier woman may not have the solid job history that an older woman, who dares to show the signs of aging, may have. A man cannot expect a a woman in her early 20’s to be able to pay for a fancy date or even a meal at a decent restaurant when he is making 5-6 figures a year and she is just starting out maybe earning $24,000 a year. For the chemist, you may want to look at women in your field or a woman who is a little older but has financial security if you want the date to be more of a business transaction. Older women are willing to pay as they are desperate. An attractive and younger woman does not need to pay. Why should she? She has the goods which most men want. So, it is a materialistic thing? Well, most marriages in other cultures are still arranged and based on what the husband can bring to the household so the woman is not prostituting herself to feed the kids.
My guys pays for all dates-period. In return I like to buy him small gifts to surprise him. It works for us, and we’ve been dating happily over a year.
Why should a woman pay? It is as if she is paying to get laid the man wants sex. Many men are cheap today and tell women how they prefer to go Dutch but then still expect sex. Living with a man is telling him how a woman will pay to have a boyfriend. She pays 1/2 of the bills (even if she earns less than the male), does the housework, and has sex on demand. Once the man tires of this woman, she pays dearly to move out while he moves onto someone else within a week of the break-up. Picnics are another way a man gets out of paying for a date but expects sex.
Why shouldn’t a man have to pay for sex. He is willing to do it with a “cuter” prostitute for supposedly less money so he should be willing to take a woman out to a nice place before getting access to her body. If a prostitute is better, go for it. FYI, a cute prostitute without the risk of STD’s or addictions will cost more than two c-notes for the night. Even a streetwalker is not going to be cheap and will rack up the tally for more things men want to have done. A woman is the one who is more at risk for casual sex. There is pregnancy and how she will go through an abortion or having the child alone if the man does not want to ante up for his child and claims he was either sterile or allergic to condoms to begin with.
We live in a materialistic world. Deal with it, fellow. Remember it was more so in past eras where a woman was to be courted and there was zero sex until the wedding night. If there happened to be any pregnancy during dating, the man had no choice but to marry the mother-to-be unless he wanted to be run out of town or deal with an angry father. Like it or not, a woman has a shelf life. After age 35, most women become the “invisible” woman even if she still has a lot of her looks left. Why squander her youth on men who cannot offer anything. Marriage, smart women marry money. Love is a fleeing emotion that is gone once the wife’s tits start to sag and the men can afford to trade in the old moo for a young calf.
The man who had the date with the older woman, that is a learning experience. Most younger men think the Cougars will take care of them when most of them are starting to get wise to this Sugar Momma Game. It was a major plan but this woman to wait until supper to meet but the young man should not have met at a restaurant where only beverages could be afforded. Next time, take the woman to McDonald’s.
Wow! So you’re using something that happens in the FUTURE as an excuse to FORCE the man to pay? If he expects stuff from you, THEN you can complain, but YOU are the one who INITIATES the sexism!
I couldn’t give a rats ass about sex to be honest, but if I DID want sex, I would get a prostitute.
Love cannot be bought.
Men often pay due to expectation of the future. When a man tells a woman that he wants to get to know her better, that is really a roundabout way of saying how he wants to have sex with her. The wooing and taking the woman on dates is the hopes for the man to be intimate with her.
Any man who says he is not interested in sex is usually lying. If there was no desire for sex, why would a man date a woman in this society. Many people do not wait until marriage before any sexuality. If a man is too cheap to pay for a date that he has asked for, he is going to be cheap in every other part of the relationship.
Most women are willing to settle for less and will do what they can to please such men. They fear the “I can go to a prostitute” comments when these men really should take their cash out and pay a prostitute for what they expect a woman to do while being cheap over the dinner tab.
Settling for less is common. These women will move in with these men before marriage and pay 1/2 of the bills even if they are earning far less than the men and have sex on demand with nothing expected of their “boyfriends.” A prostitute is often more expensive than a girlfriend which is why these men make their veiled threats of going to a hooker. If that was the case, they would have taken their desires to a prostitute than complain about it here.
Models and actresses? OK? Whatever delusion these men have to feed themselves.
Who said I dated women? I certainly didn’t.
And you’re right, there IS no reason to date a woman for reasons other than sex. Heck, I don’t even know why men put up with this crap even for sex!
Good for you. Glad you do not date women.
Marilyn I’m judging by all your comments that you MUST be at minimum at least a 8 or a 9 on the looks chart, because you seem REALLY arrogant and full of yourself, making it seem like men have to pay to be in the presence of a goddess like yourself!!
I don’t know what type of world you live in…prostitutes, men paying for sex….you must really be a piece of human trash. Why don’t you go shoot up some more heroin in your arm? We’re talking about who should pay for dates in the normal typical world, not the part of the world filled with drug addicts, prostitutes, and court convictions. Why don’t you go crawl back to your cardboard box and get stoned. Your comments are so twisted and f^cked up they are not even worth the effort of a reply.
If my post was not worth responding, why did you?
I am on drugs? You seem to know more about that world.
I actually posted my last comment before I read the whole thing, only THEN did I see the last part “Most younger men think the Cougars will take care of them when most of them are starting to get wise to this Sugar Momma Game.” so basically, a woman ACTUALLY paying her half is being manipulated? WOW! YOU NEED A BRAIN SCAN!
BOTH people need to offer something, but gold diggers like you are under the impression that you don’t have to offer ANYTHING and the man should do EVERYTHING in the relationship!
And no, sex doesn’t count (unless the man is obsessed with it) because you both get pleasure out of that!
How heavy are you? Low 200’s?
You talk like woman has to offer alot more. Real man do the yard work, fix cars, fix homees, a protector. No matter how it is looked it is a 50/50 relationship. Man look for his ideal matr and woman look for her ideal mate. Dating is getting to know each other.
Wow, that sums up most of the comments here. Guys, you dont need to go broke dating girls. Ultimately most women arent attracted to money. You dont need to be rich, you just need to know what attracts women. These days I usually spend at most $30 a date, and it doesnt matter who the girl is (special occasions are an exception). I date a wide variety of women too, young party girls, professional women (lawyers, doctors), professionally beautiful women (models, actresses), girl next door types. They are all the same once you figure it out. Right now im dating 4 different women, and lots of the time the treat me. I always return the favor in some way, for instance im a trained chef so I usually cook them dinner. Is you guys want to know how to date women go to http://www.rsdnation.com , lots of guys there know what they are talking about, if it wasnt for them id be were most guys are, having an unfulfilled dating life.
Just kinda skimming through this and I’m safely assuming most here are still single…
Why do the first few dates have to be associated with dinner? You can’t talk with food in your mouth, lol. Or, you shouldn’t b/c that’s just rude, and unattractive, lol.
Go half-sies on some hockey tickets, have him buy the first round, then ladies, buy the second round, and whoever drove, the other should pay for parking. Now that’s an awesome first date!
Hi all. I’m here because i need help.
I’ve been dating this guy for four months now. I like him and i know he feels the same way (coz that’s what he tells our common friends) BUT the thing is, everytime we go out, i’m the one paying – from the movies, food, drinks, name it! He’s 8 yrs younger than i am and he was still in school when i met him. But now he’s working, i was expecting that maybe this time, he would at least offer to split the check with me. I know i earn waaay much than he does (my paycheck’s 70% higher than he makes) but i was expecting he’d be polite enough to at least offer to share. This is kind of frsutrating for someone like me who’s never been with a guy (used to date lesbians and now trying my luck being straight). I don’t know if i should still see him or what. I can’t even feel if he really does like me coz he can’t even say it to my face, he’d just rely on our friends to tell me that he likes me. Guess that’s how kids are.
What should i do?
Oh and by the way, im only on my mid 20s jst in case youre thinking. Im too young to be a cougar but with this dating scene, i feel like i already am. Kill me
So, you started dating this guy when he was in high school??? That’s a little bit freakish to me. What was he 16 or 17 and you were 24 or 25? The age difference of 8 years is no problem, but the age itself is freaky. Why and how in hell could you date someone that young and immature…unless you are immature yourself. Do you wipe his ass too???
I never said he was in high school. He was in college when we started dating. He’s 19, im 26. I just Mistyped the numbers.
There have been studies shown that the more a man spends on a woman, the more he values her. Men’s brains are wired differently. I, as a woman would never ask a man out, now would I pay for a date unless we were going out a long time and it was his birthday. Women, do yourself a favor.. don’t chase. Don’t ask men out. Don’t pay. It will cheaper yourself in his eyes whether he admits it or not.
How do you value someone when it is only your first or second date? You don’t even know if you really like someone. Your thinking is totally bizarre. Are you cracked?? That last sentence is totally whacko???? WTF are you talking about? You have to be a feelingless cold b^tch to think the way you do. You’re obviously just a another cold hearted gold digger whose brain would never comprehend. People like you give me the creeps you’re so feelingless and so cold.
And studies were done, really? Post some links then.
And where exactly were these “studies” conducted? Can I have a link to them please?
Men protest of how this is not true but a man does look at a woman as cheap if she chases after him. If this was not the case, there would not be the tons of websites where women ask if it is acceptable to do the asking out for a date and to pay for the man.
Men pay for what they value. Before the usual suspects start screaming of what kind of women we are for mentioning this, they need to look at how men will squander most of their paycheques to get lapdances at the strip club and will pay plenty of money for adult entertainment while squawking about paying for a decent dinner date. Most women who do the chasing end up alone after the man is bored and goes onto the next conquest.
The term “gold-digger” is only thrown at a woman to make her feel that she has to settle for less from a man. A man will call his wife a “gold-digger” if she feels the need to work less hours and not put in overtime at work to be able to properly take care of the children and home, which the man expects even if the lady is working 50 hours a week outside of the house. It keeps women in their place when a woman lives with a man without marriage and usually ends up paying 70% of the living expenses even if she earns less than her mate.
Chivalry has died long ago. Feminism told women they could have it all but all they ended up with is boy-men who feel a text message is worthy of a birthday or Christmas card.
I have no idea where you come from, but you have now showed your true colors and it is clear why you make such posts. Thank God most women I know share NOTHING of the values you post. I think they would call you a whack job. Men squander their paychecks at stripjoints??? While possibly true of some people, where in the hell do you make such generalized off the wall statements? WHat percentage of men do that?? 7…8%? That is truly whacked. Some guys HATE stripjoints and NEVER go to them. I’m ok with it and maybe on average go there once or possibly twice a year for amusement while I have a drink. Some years I don’t go at all. You bring up the bottom of the barrel 8% of men and broadcast it like all guys are that way. Wake the f^ck up!!! I bet most women who would read your posts would probably rank you at the bottom of the barrel 8% of women and it shows. You talking like there is no such thing as a gold digger..LOL!!! They are NOT the majority of women, thank God, but they do exist. Chivalry…hahahaha…you are so screwed up! Chivalry was KILLED BY FEMINISM!!!!!!! You make yourself so clear it is now understandable of why you make such comments on here. You want to go out with the jerks (probably because you are attracted to them physically or by their wreckless bad boy behavior) and then you complain about it.
Surprise, there are actually guys who treat women great, but you won’t be attracted to these ‘boy-men’ as you put it, because they don’t turn you on. As a guy who is a very giving and caring person, I want to end up with a woman who respects that and is thankful for that. There are women out there who have no grattitude and could care less and some who even think they arer owed that….sounds like you? Well those women can run along and end up with the careless bottom of the barrel jerk men. I love when the losers meet the losers, it’s great!!!!!!!!! :)
A woman work and split the bills, is equalities. Wbat do you expect, live off the man, and pocket your earning and not pay? Its called being selfish. A gold digger is wanting to be treated like a queen and a princess, take and not give back. If a woman cberish her man she should do what ever it takes to make him happy.
What about a man doing what it takes to make the woman he supposedly loves happy. If a woman is working and the couple are married, it would be foolhardy for the lady not to be a part of the financial picture. A woman not wanting a cheapskate for a mate is always called a “gold-digger.” There is nothing wrong for a woman to want to be treated with respect. There are too many men who expect a woman to put out for easy sex and then to birth those babies after marriage all the while being expected to pay as if she is nothing more than a mere roomie.
You just can’t be figured out. The only conclusion I can come to is that you’re a whorish girl who always sleeps with guys on the first or second date and you feel like they should cover the whole bill and you return the favor with sex. Wow, I’m sure you are making a lot of women disgusted right now. Dekers is already offended and I don’t blame her. When I go on a date with a women I have ZERO expecation for sex. In fact, if i like her I’d rather put sex off for a while because it confuses things. Apparently, you go out with low life guys who are only interested in banging you and obviously, you the same. This is a discussion about typical regular people, not gutter trash as you are describing. Maybe that’s why your ideas are so drastically different from others on here.
I use to think as you do, but i have learned different. I never paid going out, until I met this one guy who did not have a lot of money. I thought If I cared about a person alot what did it matter. Well, It does matter, and that is why men who make lower pay are attracted to white trash. It makes a man feel more of man if the woman is making less than him. so, I will only date a man who makes more than me.. problem solved.
dating is feeling is each other, getting to know each other. 50/50 split. you dont know the other person and the person dont know you. Thier true color has to show i say 2 years. when two people are on the same page and mutually agree to create a monogamous relationship and living together married then it really doesnt matter where the money is coming from whom, its the same pot.
after three dates, if the woman dont chip in. its over. It tell me she is cheap and selfish. Because when two people get married, everything comebine. Your going to live off one account anyways.
I use to think that way. until I tried it, and it doesn’t work at all. men have to feel wanted, and the need to provide. If a woman pays all the time, a man is miserable, unhappy and depressed because he feels like his man hood was shot to hell
You have to consider all types of people. You are basing things off a few of your experiences only. I know some women who did not make too much money and always offered to split the cost of a date. She met one guy who would not even pay to buy her an ice cream!!!! They already split the cost of a movie. What does an ice cream cost….$3.00?? So, while some guys might behave like you described, there are other who would have no problem to mooch off you and have no issue with their manhood at all!!!!! Being cheap doesn’t necessarily have anyhting to do with it.
Just like some women want to play it fair and split the cost while others want to mooch everything and feel they are ‘owed’ things. You have to remember there are ALL walks of life out there. And if you meet the right man and he makes a little less money than you, but his morals are straight then you have nothing to worry about. I make decent money, but if I met a woman who was a lawyer or a doctor than hey, she’s gonna make more money than me. LOL. I would hope she wouldn’t dismiss me just because I made less money than her…….so long as I am not a moocher and a user- which I am clearly not.
The women should pay. Men should stop paying for any dates whatsoever. We should make it a matter of policy to only pay for a date if we either propose and the girl accepts or we had a really great time. If we have anything less than a stellar experience then the woman should pay for wasting our time. Men should never accept a ride from a woman and never allow the woman to assume that you will take them home. I don’t care that car pooling saves the carbon foot whatever. One wrong word from a woman and I walk, get on my motorcycle and head out. Having a Y chromosome doesn’t mean I am a walking ATM machine for a woman who needs to go get a job.
Does that sound harsh? Well it’s not. Get with the times people and update your understanding of the social constructs around you. Ok, if a woman is a nun, in a habit; then I will pay for her meal. If she is homeless, I will offer a ride to a homeless shelter. That is just human decency. If she is some tempter who thinks distracting my eyes with her body will allow her to detach my money from me then she is nothing more than a thief and deserves the reward of a villain.
Its simply about communication upfront about what you are getting out of it and what its going to cost each of you. There is still a price for great conversation and company even when it does not end with sex.
In today’s world where women want equal rights this goes along that same line… Atleast offer to pay for your share of the night… if the guys insist on paying well then he obviously thinks that your time and company is worth the price and willing to pay it…
There are plenty of people I would pay money to just to sit and chat with and learn from them… just for their time… And the same goes if I can just take them out for dinner… something we both can enjoy… well I’m willing to foot the bill to have the time and conversation with them..
But that being said… any girl that absolutely thinks it is my duty or job to pay the bill.. HAHAH.. clearly you are missing the point… I am a very well educated man and you have just as much to learn from me as I do you… so the cost/benefit is mutual.
Chivalry is not dead….but any woman the expects that type of treatment has clearly missed a lot in their education on world topic the past 50 years.
Then you want an escort and not a girlfriend.
How about a fourth option: everyone pays their own way, all the time.
As a man, I never pay for a first date and only split down the middle. If a woman gives me problems on paying her fair share, she’s gone. This is the age of equality. So women, either “woman up” and put on the big girl pants or take a hike. You’re not children and you make as much as men these days on average. If men always paid for the first date, they are sending the message that they’re lives are not valued or worth as much as a woman’s, which isn’t true. Women today in America have entitlement issues. It’s a real turn-off. Thankfully, I found a good one who is my equal and not like these high maintenance, drama princesses above who expect the world while giving very little in return. This is a two-way street where women should be trying to impress men on the first date as much as men impress women.
P.S. Marilyn has real entitlement issues and the “princess syndrome”. Notice it’s all about impressing HER and what the man can do for HER. It’s never about what she brings to the table and what she does to give to a man. Marilyn is all take and no give. This is called high maintenance. I ran screaming away from women like this a long time ago and never looked back and am so much happier for it. Women like this are a dime a dozen and a sure path to divorce or worse.
If a man asks me out on a date, I always get out my wallet at the end with a smile, expecting to split the check. If he says “no, I’m getting this,” I smile and put away my wallet and say thank you. I am happy either way. I figure, if he pays this time, I’ll pay next time.
Assuming there is a next time, I’ll say, “let’s go out here. my treat.” To show that I like to take turns.
If he makes a lot more than I do, then by the 3rd or 4th date, I point that out and say that I enjoy taking turns and taking him out, and I enjoy the places he takes me, but when I take him out, I might make more modest choices in the places we go, or I’ll invite him over and cook him dinner, or pay for the movies or something less expensive. I like to reciprocate, but I think it is reasonable that one party is not bankrupted trying to keep up with the other party.
I would not want a long term relationship with someone who wanted to take advantage of me or would not notice that I do not make enough money to keep up. Or vice versa. I would not want to take advantage of someone who makes far less than I do. I would pay more often, or pay a larger percentage, or go to less expensive places…. if the relationship is a good one.
But for the first date, the one who asks is the one who should pay. And even though I offer to split the check if I’m asked out, I only do that if it is not clear cut. If the guy says, “I would like to take you out…” and if he picks me up, that to me is a sign that HE is paying. But if he says “let’s go out” and we just show up separately and meet at the restaurant, that is a more ambiguous sign that splitting the check or just paying one’s portion might be the way to go.
Some of the men on answering these posts are well let’s say I think just not having much luck with the ladies. Rather than act like a victim and lash out, why not try having a backbone when you actually do go on a date and not try to lavish a woman with expensive dinners JUST SO YOU CAN GET LAID! and then bitch about it on this site when your plan goes wrong! Ask girls out that you can actually land, set the tone of the date WITHIN YOUR BUDGET! pay for the date and you might have more success. Don’t lash out at all women because one or a few women took you for a ride.
It’s my experience that if a man hints at a woman paying or expects her to pay then he’s typically a lazy man in life or he just expects to have his cake and eat it too. If you do go along long enough with a man like that, he eventually shows his colours. Women don’t want men like that! We never have and we never will!
We don’t expect men to have a million bucks or spend lavishly on us, but we DO expect them to be men. THAT’S the difference! It reeks of a man who is afraid of life, has low self confidence, is weak, lazy, unstructured, uncommitted, a con artist, a cheat, and someone who would stampede past women and children on a sinking boat to save his own ass. That’s the message it sends. It’s a complete turn off for many women who are dating and it sure don’t make us want to spread’em for ya! k? that’s the point… there is no point in arguing feminism and equal rights… women want men, not scardy cat boys, that’s who we want to sleep with, spend our time with, introduce to our family and friends, marry and have children with.
and so if you run into a few “gold diggers” out there that don’t fall at your feed and want to blow you after you buy them a $100 dinner, well just grow up and deal with it, we have to deal with your incessant drooling and panting and pawing and proclaiming your love (aka want to screw you) after two dates all the time…
Here’s my take on things–I take an entirely different approach between dating & long-term relationships.
I tend to be more old-fashioned when it comes to early dating–the guy pays for the first & second date. I might offer to get the tip or drinks by the second date, but that’s it. I’m not in it for a free meal, but I want to see that he’s trying to interest me–for me it’s all about the gesture, not what I’m getting out of it. (Caveat–I never rack up the bill! I try to get the less- or middle-expensive items, I’m not trying to take advantage. Also, I would never go on a date with someone I wasn’t interested in, just to get food! I think that’s so rude.)
Starting by the 4th date or so, I will offer to pay every other time or one out of three times. At this point, I hope he graciously accepts–while I appreciate the gesture of him buying me dinner, etc., I want to pay some of the time. I have a job and I would feel ridiculous never paying. I want to show that I can be an equal contributor.
By the point that you’re in a long-term relationship, things are very different. You likely have an idea how much the other person makes and you have to take that into account. For now I make more money than my boyfriend, so in that case I would prefer to pay 50-60% of the time. If I made less, then I would be fine with him paying more often–it’s hard to get dinner/entertainment when your budget is tight, regardless of gender. (Also, I think it’s ok to split a bill when you’re in an LTR, but I agree that splitting a bill is completely awkward when you’re in the getting-to-know-you part of the relationship.)
My boyfriend is from a small town and has more conservative views on paying–he’d like to get the bill more often than I do. Lately he has insisted, and he seems to enjoy paying–his parents are always saying that the guy should ALWAYS pay. So, I hate it when he doesn’t like it when I pay–his budget can’t always take it! I would never say that to him, he sometimes pouts that I make more (he’s early-on in a sales career, and in my opinion will be making a lot more in the future). I bought him some jeans and underwear the other day because his closet was getting so sparse–we never disagree that badly on money but I hate that he gets embarrassed about income. So even in a relationship where there aren’t huge differences in opinion on finance, you can still run in to delicate situations!
Each person can just pay for what they ordered. If one person wants to contribute more, let them, appreciate it, and tell them that.
It’s great to be generous, but silly to agonize over artificial obligations.
If you’re interested in the girl. You should pay. It’s complimentary and says you would like to go out again (it’s also instrumental into turning things like online dates into something more intimate/natural). I’ve had this discussion with many “modern” women who are perfectly happy to pay their share and more in the long run, but we all agree that it’s a turn off when a man doesn’t pay on the first couple of dates as much as we try to rationalize it.
I’d be curious to know how men feel when women pay on a first date. If a man pays for me it’s flattering and a really nice feeling. Does this go the other way?
When a woman pays her share, she has substance and we men know that she isn’t just there for a free meal. I always split the bill and if she insists on me paying it’s a deal breaker because I end up feeling used.
I didn’t know this was still an issue to be honest. Perhaps it’s a regional or generational thing, or just my anecdotal experience, but I have always insisted on paying for myself on dates. It usually went over fine and was appreciated. I’ve had some guys get all butt-hurt about it, but they typically did not get a second date with that behavior. Most of the females I know at least offer (and not with the intention of shit testing some poor guy, their generosity as far as I can tell is genuine). All these tests and hanging stupid meanings on silly gestures like who pays for dinner is just so ridiculous in this day and age. If you like your old fashioned notions – go for it, but don’t assume we can all be painted with that same broad stroke.
Nowadays, im in a 15 yr relationship, two kids, and guess what? We have separate accounts and still split the bills. No one ever feels one is contributing more than the other, and as long as the bills are paid we never have to argue about money. Life is good and no one is mooching.
I’ve never been on a first date where the guy didn’t grab the check. I’d always offer, but he’d always decline. From there on out, across the board, second date on, I’ve always taken turns paying (him first, me second, him third, etc…), and I’ve never had an issue with this…
This indeed is a brave (?) New world.
My opinion, which just as yours means nothing cosmically, is that if you are male and cannot afford a date, you need to wait until you can. I think finances are indicative of if you’re ready for a wife and family.